This all highlights the chaos that was Peugeot, from a "what is the configuration?" point of view. I think the best one can do is to try to lay out the different national time lines and overlay them to see what may or may not have been common across the production. Even then, judgements must be made regarding which historical examples are or are not validly original, or which original documents (the catalogs) represent information that really was updated for a particular model year. I'd assume that in the '60s, when very few actual functional improvements occurred, changes represented changes in the supply chain and in the consumer's expectations regarding styling and ornamentation ("dowdy" script Peugeot changed to a stylized block/script Peugeot and then to a modernized gold block Peugeot).
Some of my clear recollections of Peugeots in Chicago's bike shops 1968 through 1970: UO-8s had black Delrin Simplex derailleurs with red badges that had the name in black. My impression is that those were not usually termed "Criterium." I rode some buddy's bikes, and the Simplex shifted far better than the Huret Allvits on my friends' poorly maintained Schwinns. The first PX-10s I saw (1968?) had a derailleur that looked the same as the UO-8s, but the shop rats (not much older than I was) called them "Prestige." I spent some time staring at both and could not see any difference. Some later shipments of PX-10s were equipped with black Delrin Simplex deraileurs with white or silver badges, that were termed "Prestige" by the also-teenaged shop rats. Again, I couldn't see any obvious difference between those and the red/black ones, other than color. Since I couldn't afford one PX-10, I couldn't buy several and evaluate them all. And in Chicago in those days, test rides were especially rare on tubular tires. Essentially if you didn't work at the shop you didn't get experience of the available bikes. All that I saw had large-flange Normandy Competition hubs, with the plainer Normandy on the UO-8s. I didn't pay much attention to the AO-8s or anything with small flange hubs (ditto for wingnuts), unless they were obviously superior like Campy Record. These only appeared on the odd Italian high-end bike in those days, nearly everything good was large flange.
In 1968 I'm sure I saw new PX-10s in Chicago stores. It's not clear whether they were delivered in 1968 or earlier. It could also be that Peug built and delivered them in 1968, but did not distribute new literature. This could especially be if there were no changes, or if Peug's view was that "specifications may be changed without notice." This "covers" them, if they needed to be covered, for running updates. Big production lines needed, above all, to be kept moving.
I'm having some trouble aligning these memories with the details of the Berto time line.
I don't doubt Kim's time line as a distillation of the French and Dutch catalogs out on the site he cited. It's clear it needs to not be taken as gospel for the US market, and that there may be some added caveats in those markets. And hard evidence, like the configuration of a bike that is documented as purchased in 1967 and recalled never to have been upgraded (and has plausible date codes et cetera), must be seen as contradicting the results of overlapping historical analysis. But it's questionable whether Charles' 1967 bike contradicts Kim's Dutch and French timeline, when we already know they do not fully match US bikes. I agree with his conclusion that bikes sold in the USA were probably different, for a number of possible reasons.
On Tue, Jun 8, 2010 at 5:29 AM, verktyg <verktyg@aol.com> wrote:
> Jack,
>
> That's an interesting time line that Kim posted but it doesn't quite jibe
> with the several months of research that I did on my 1967 PX-10.
>
> That's why I made a comment in an earlier post that the catalogs referenced
> were French and Dutch.
>
> I didn't have time before to find the links to some other sites with
> Peugeot catalogs that I used in my search but here are some of them.
>
> Here's a link showing 1966, 67 and 68 French Peugeot catalogs without any
> specs. The bikes all have small flange hubs.
>
> http://cyclespeugeot.com/
>
>
> Here's another site with a bunch of Peugeot catalogs:
>
> http://retropeugeot.com/
>
>
> This site has links to the sites above:
>
> http://www.re-cycle.com/
>
>
> Here's the specs for a 1968 PX-10. This lists the rear derailleur as a
> Prestige 537 Luxe which is probably incorrect. By 1968 it should have been a
> black badged Criterium:
>
> http://www.velo-pages.com/
>
>
> By 1968, the red label Prestige derailleurs were the cheap models. I
> suspect that at some point the original (probably black label) Criterium
> derailleur needed to be replaced. Quite likely the LBS who replaced it
> didn't have ready access to a Criterium derailleur so they used a Prestige
> instead.
>
>
> The Criterium was the premium model Simplex derailleur by then and only
> came on top quality French bikes with Simplex dropouts.
>
> I've seen a few Criteriums with a "claw" attachment but never I've never
> seen them listed in any catalogs.
>
> Here's the Criterium page from the 1971 Simplex catalog:
>
> http://velo-pages.com/
>
> Even in the 1970s replacement Criterium derailleurs were not that easy to
> get plus they were expensive (I'm thinking about $18).
>
>
> My 1967 has a 1973 Criterium RD. I'd like to get a good black label
> Criterium for it. Only about a third of the Criterium derailleurs that I've
> seen have a date code.
>
> I've seen a few PX-10s with black seat clusters and BB but most have been
> white.
>
> Supposedly all PX-10s made for consumers before 1966 were blue with the
> early one having yellow lugs then later black lugs. I've seen at least one
> white non-team pre-1966 PX-10 so who knows.
>
> Some of the Peugeot team bikes were all white with no black trim.
>
> Peugeot produced both riveted and glued head head badges from that era.
>
> The standard pedals for those years were the Lyotard model 45 alloy quill
> pedals. The Berthets may have been changed by a previous owner. I have very
> wide feet so I've used Berthets or Lyotard 460D alloy pedals on my old
> French bikes.
>
> I always thought that the Simplex left dropouts with the "horn" were
> discontinued by the end of the 60s. The 1971 catalog shows the Ref. 1753
> with a horn. Of course it could just be an old printing plate that they
> never bothered to change. same thing with most catalogs from those days.
> They were hand laid out with cut and paste methods and the type was handset.
>
> http://velo-pages.com/
>
>
> There's a wood plug in my steering tube too.
>
>
> The serial number on my 1967 PX-10 is 483675 and your later model is
> 200631. If you look at the serial numbers on the CR PX-10 page you'll see
> that they jump all over the place so I don't think that they mean anything!
>
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com/
>
>
> BTW, In my research on my 1967, I ran across very few 1968 PX-10s.
>
> Chas. Colerich
> Oakland, Ca USA
>
>
>
> Kim, thanks for taking time to draft this timeline. I will add features
>> of 1968 using my PX-10 (Ser# 200631) as example. Due to several features as
>> well as 3-68 stamping on Prestige (red-label) derailleur, I''m assured it's
>> a 1968. Can anyone add 1967 from personal experience?
>>
>> 1968 - All 531 f&f, Nervex pro lugs incl stamped BB shell w/angles, head
>> lugs, seat-cluster incl seat-stay ends and BB shell blackened (perhaps not
>> cluster and BB in all cases as has been reported?), All incl chrome
>> clear-coated ("varnish" in catalog).
>> Simplex shifters, Criterium?...Mafac Dural Forge calipers, (no original
>> saddle but) Simplex-badged 26.4 steel post. Riveted metal headbadge.
>>
>> Stronglight Mod.93 Competition crank, Lyotard Berthet pedals, "Peugeot" in
>> simple Gold block letters on downtube decal. Left rear d/o with tab. I'll
>> also add that this 68 has hardwood plug in steerer and I found a cork shoved
>> down the seat-tube...prob an early form of BB protector.
>>
>> Jack Romans
>> Sacramento, California
>>
> _______________________________________________
>
--
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA