Re: [CR] Bertin Frames

(Example: Framebuilders:Mario Confente)

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2010 10:51:52 -0700
From: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>
To: Peter Rogers <pjrogers@rogers.com>, Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
References: <2E59E7E595A1494F856ED80690E6EC9D@PeterPC> <4C1EFE42.7060709@aol.com> <A7C5A166AAA44C00B08B790DDB7AFECC@PeterPC>
In-Reply-To:
Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames


Peter,

It's definitely a Bertin frame, most likely an early 80s model C37 which was their "professional" model for many years. It could also be a C70 or similar top of the line performance model.

The 16mm seat stays with flat oval brazed-on caps was one of their hallmarks. The fish mouthed fork and rear stay ends were another. Long point Bocama lugs with the stamped V cutouts were used on this model from the mid 70s through the early 80s.

The dropouts may be Campy or Milremo - which were made by one of the companies that made them for Campagnolo. The fork crown is an investment cast Vitus Arcor style.

The standard C37 frames were made with Reynolds 531 tubing with .7mm/1.0mm wall thickness butted main tubes. The lighter C37bis used Super Vitus 971 tubing which had .6/.9mm wall thickness main tubes - the same dimensions as Columbus SL tubing.

My 1980 C37bis has Super Vitus 971 stickers but the main tubes are made of lighter Super Vitus 980.

If you strip it for repainting, you'll probably be able to see what kind of tubing it's made of.

These frames had around a ~100cm wheelbase with 72° to 73° angles which made for a classic French road racing ride - responsive but comfortable.

The decals probably looked like these:

http://tinyurl.com/2fn6s64

Bertin had some catalog standard bikes but many if not most were built to order (in quantity). C37 was the frame model not necessarily the bike model. I've seen them from the 60s and early 70s equipped with everything from Huret Allvit derailleurs to full Campy!

We were able to specify frame sizes, geometry (racing or touring), tubing (to some degree), and components (to some degree) but not colors or decals.

Bertin was the French importer and distributor for Shimano and your frame looks like it has an alloy Shimano headset. It was not uncommon to see an all Shimano Bertin.

We marketed the Bertins we imported as "all French". Bertin couldn't understand why we didn't want them equipped all Shimano!

French production bikes were built to ride, not look at! ;-)

Chas. Colerich Oakland, CA USA

Peter Rogers wrote:
> Dear Chas,
> Many thanks for the information and it is interesting that you used to
> sell Bertins in your shop.
>
> I checked out the CR archives and the website (blog) that you mentioned
> in your email.
>
> As requested, I have posted the eBay photos on my blog:
>
> http://petersclassicwheels.blogspot.com/2010/06/bertin-frame.html
>
> The listing claims that it is a refinished Bertin frame (painted some
> time ago, I think) and that it is made from Reynolds 531.
> I believe that the front forks are not 531, but I am not sure.
> I have not received the frame yet.
>
> I am not sure if the dropouts are Campy, but they look similar.
>
> Please let me know if you think it may be Bertin, as claimed.
>
> All the best,
> Peter Rogers
>
> Barrie, Ontario, Canada
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "verktyg"
> Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:53AM
> To: "Peter Rogers"
> Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames
>
>> Sheldon Brown (RIP) described Bertins as "Better than average '70's
>> bikes."
>>
>> Our shop imported Bertins from 1975 until the early 80s.
>>
>> There's a website with a fairly accurate history of Andre Bertin and
>> his company Cycles Bertin also called Cycles Andre Bertin:
>>
>> http://bertinclassiccycles.wordpress.com/2009/02/07/andre-bertin-biography/
>>
>>
>> The webmaster runs it more as a blog than a forum.
>>
>> Some of the information on models and hierarchy is based on opinions
>> and guesses from contributors rather than hard facts from those who
>> were in the trade when these bikes were being produced and sold.
>>
>> A Bertin Reynolds 531 frame for \u20ac 35 sounds like a good deal.
>>
>> Like most of the French bike makers, a lot of the bikes from the 60s
>> through mid 70s had only the 3 main tubes Reynolds 531 with Durifort
>> forks and stays on their mid range bikes.
>>
>> Many eBay sellers aren't aware of that or ignore it in their listings.
>>
>> During those years the best models where all Reynolds 531 or Super
>> Vitus 971 tubing with Campy dropouts.
>>
>> Post some pictures and I can probably help ID the frame for you.
>>
>> Chas. Colerich
>> Oakland, CA USA
>>
>>
>> Peter Rogers wrote:
>>> Dear All,
>>> Just purchased a Reynolds 531 Bertin frame on eBay France for 35 Euros.
>>> I'll post some photos on my blog shortly.
>>> Does anyone on the list know anything about the quality and pedigree
>>> these frames?
>>> Any help will be much appreciated.
>>> Kind regards,
>>> Peter Rogers
>>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada