[CR] Was: Robert's spoke brouhaha. now: Question for Dale...

From: oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com> Subject: [CR] Was: Robert's spoke brouhaha. now: Question for Dale... To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 9:40 PM

<< Dale, ...(snip)... I joined specifically for discussions related directly to vintage, classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules. ...(snip)... Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the CR rules?  Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the filtering quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.

My I suggest that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the likes of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example?  Jerome knows one helluva lot...Bob can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around awhile...the vast majority of us here know who they are.

Please address those questions in the plea of sorts above. >>

Hmmm. Well the first point to be made is that the list is not moderated, i.e., I do not read & clear messages prior to their being sent to all the members. I get to read them just like everyone else. So I am reduced to reading them as I can... and calling people to task when and if I see that they have onerously broken the rules. I honestly do not think there are as many annoying violations of the rules as you seem to suffer through Robert! Granted, some things irritate me more than others (rudeness, vulgarity, using the list as a testing ground for pending eBay offerings for instance) But I also remember when I was a newbie in computers so maybe I tend to be more understanding with unintentional goofs.  Of course, I also run a very busy bike shop and organize many cycling events so that I miss some mail. In the end, I do what I can and plod along. But taking your question to heart, I do not at all reject the idea of  Bob or Jerry helping in that way.  Both I consider excellent fellow and good friends. What say you, fellows? 

Dale

Dale Brown cycles de ORO, Inc. 1410 Mill Street #100 Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA 336-274-5959 http://www.cyclesdeoro.com http://www.classicrendezvous.com http://www.carolinacup.com \u201cLife is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving\u201d  A.Einstein

-----Original Message----- From: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Mon, Jun 21, 2010 7:31 pm Subject: Re: [CR] spoke question & snark

Okay...

Everyone has had their chance to wax poetic, be the knight on the shining horse

for the person getting "picked on", rally the wagons, etc., etc., etc.

For the past two years, I have made two points over and over - which of course has gotten people all riled up each time:

1.  This is a site for the discussion of vintage, classic and KOF bikes, parts,

and their history as defined by Dale in the CR rules.

2.  This is a site for the discussion of restoration, mechanical repair, etc., of vintage, classic and KOF bikes and parts as defined by Dale in the CR rules.

Now of course, each time everyone has gotten riled up - including some tossing outright profanity at me in public - Dale hops in and both publicly and privately reminds everyone including yours truly that it's his website and he enforces the rules.

Which is fine by me...for awhile...as I sit quietly and watch over a period of 2-3 months a 1000 plus emails land in my inbox of which easily 1/3 are OFF- TOPIC...mostly "attaboys" and general mechanics questions and discussions instead of vintage/classic/KOF specific mechanics questions and discussions.

Then of course having gotten tired of following the CR rules while watching others blatantly violate them - I run into a bad day and stick my ugly head up on the radar again - just like this morning.

As a case in point, it got so bad at one point awhile back that one evening, CR

became the new Craigslist Helpdesk.  When I pointed that out, I got the usual heat including ad-homs.  Surprisingly, even Dale joined in on the attack to which I asked paraphrasing:  "So are you okay Dale with CR becoming a helpdesk for Craigslist when Craigslist already has one?

I never did get an answer...

So, regarding this morning, let's get down to it:

1.  Can I resuse spokes?  OFF-TOPIC

It's a general mechanics question which has been answered a 100+ times over at bikeforums.net, forums.cycling.com and USENET courtesy of none other than Jobst

Brandt and company - all archived by Google, Bing and Yahoo search engines.

2.  Source for Robergel and Union-Berg?  ON-TOPIC

I was happy to see that part because it was another reminder that once again I really do need to ask about the Berg part - I'm not familiar with it - assuming

it's the same Union that I am familiar with.

3.  Source for DT Swiss 2.0/1.8?  GOES BOTH WAYS

Is DT KOF as a spoke?  Some would say yes...some would say no...both sides are right in my honest opinion.  Why did I go off on the poster?  Simply because it

told me flat out that the poster couldn't be bothered to do a little research with a search engine with the 8 fingers and 2 thumbs already splayed out across

the keyboard.  It took me less than 30 seconds to get a listing - one of which was Harris Cyclery offering custom lengths from blanks.

Now before you guys start firing off those rockets again - understand that we have had this argument before - and a couple others on this list have expressed

the same annoyance that I have with those we can't be bothered to do a little work up front with the tools they already have and know how to use beforehand.

Am I done yet with that point?  Actually not...because not only do people not make use of those listed search engines - but they also ignore BIKELIST.ORG's own search engine which is linked and noted 3 times over at a minimum when you follow the directory to join, follow the directory to browse the listings, and when you follow the directory to review the CR rules as I periodically do.

Dale refuses to say it, but I will.  Folks that do that in my honest opinion, whether unintentionally or intentionally, are displaying a lack of respect for those who maintain the site and list.  BIKELIST.ORG's seach engine works fine -

and even then when a few of us who do use it don't find something - we note it and apologize in ADVANCE before posting just in case.

Now I am going to wrap things up...with a plea of sorts addressed to Dale more than anyone else:

Dale, I joined CR not to experience bikeforums.net, forums.bicycling.com or USENET.  I joined specifically for discussions related directly to vintage, classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules.  Also I did not join to witness an IT helpdesk for Craigslist.  Even some of the eBay help stuff is crossing the line.  eBay also has help forums and a chat forum.

It has gotten to the point again where after trying very hard to read people's

posts - I find myself realizing, here we go again...and doing a pipe/mv of the queues to /dev/null and restarting my qmail on my server.

Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the CR rules?  Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the filtering quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.

My I suggest that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the likes of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example?  Jerome knows one helluva lot...Bob

can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around awhile...the vast majority of us here know who they are.

Please address those questions in the plea of sorts above.

Sincerely,

Robert Shackelford San Jose, CA USA

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