Re: [CR] Frame stiffness NOW Frames Getting Soft and 753

Example: Production Builders:Cinelli

Date: Tue, 6 Jul 2010 19:05:46 -0700
To: "P.C. Kohler" <>
References: <>
In-Reply-To: <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Frame stiffness NOW Frames Getting Soft and 753


Hmmm...flame bottle...check! Flamethrower...

Just kidding...

Here's my take from a different angle - and actually the only difference between Angel and angle is not even a letter - just a position. In other words

Angel has already touched upon what I'm about to say:

You folks can spend all day talking about all the specified and claimed properties of various steels and go on and on with versus statements backed by extracts from books and extracts from personal experiences and he said / she said...

That's all fine and stuff. Actually you do learn alot from such "nerd" arguments - believe me - I've been reading everything everyone has said. I don't mind. I'm a nerd myself actually...


In the end I do prefer to focus on the bigger picture and think big. Just focusing on one word brings you to that:


As I was reading everyones posts and I found myself thinking about Brian Baylis

and Dale Saso.

My thought was:

"Brian Baylis and Dale Saso could have themselves one hellavu lot of fun and personal amusement at our expense doing things like - building a supposedly super-stiff lightweight bike that sprints like a dog, or building a super- flexible lightweight bike that accelerates and takes a hill like a dream and lasts forever, or a building a bike that is supposedly super-strong and stiff but couldn't survive one single 6" drop off a curb."

If you think about, with reputable rim manufacturers, the fact that they have different rim profiles and sizes and weights for different "applications" is not in large part by accident. A source can spend all day with me talking about their materials properties - but in the end I want to know how they are applying it.

Care to pipe in Brian?


Robert Shackelford San Jose, CA USA

Quoting "P.C. Kohler" <>:
> I rode my 1983 Raleigh SBDU 753 Pro Super yesterday so been reading all of
> this with interest.I'm 6'2", 165 lbs, ride a 62-63 cm frame ideally, am an
> aggressive rider and for me, 753 is all one could wish for, at least as
> crafted by the SBDU; it's uber light, lively and in a Raleigh frame has
> superb ride with no extremes in angles. But you sure couldn't call 753
> "stiff". You want stiff (and I frankly do) in this size... ride a Masi 3v,
> absolutely sex on two wheels even if it's a good 1 1/2 lbs heavier. Just
> completely different rides and the weight difference is imperceptable, the 3v
> eats hills and accerates out of a curve like nothing else. So stiff is good
> but 753 is sublime and that's good, too. I find myself preferring 753, Vitus
> 971 and Columbus SL/SLX to Reynolds 531 Imperial gauge standard DB which can
> seen "dead" if that's the right word in comparison; I am not sure why but it
> just feels that way sometimes.
> Peter Kohler
> Washington DC USA