Re: [CR] Big frames ride better? - apologies

Good Evening all.

At 6.2 feet tall and weighing 195 (or there abouts) I thought I would offer my insights into taller frames. My factory made bikes are either 62cm or 25", which are the largest that are on the market. I've found the the quality of the ride goes along with the amount of money I paid for the bike. The cheap seventies ten speeds rode like cheap ten speeds, and the more money I spent the the bikes the better they rode. In no way have I even found that my larger frames were in any way either better or worse than anyone ellis bike. This thread stared with a customer who was sentimental about his old bike. Perhaps this was more biased on sentimentality than on good science.

The other side of this is that I have ridden fewer brands of bicycles than many other people because so few companies make frames in my sizes. Were I a few inches shorter I would have a great many more choices, and would own bikes.

Perhaps this is a good question for the frame builders on the list. When building a frame for a taller and heavy ridder, what changes wold you build into the frame? I look forward to hearing your insights.

Tom Harriman San Francisco, Ca

> Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 03:03:46 +0000
> From: droohr@comcast.net
> To: thomasthomasa@yahoo.com
> CC: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: [CR] Big frames ride better? - apologies
>
> Hi again, Tom,
>
> I am re-reading this note and must apologize to you and the CR list for its grumpy and surly nature. I did not intend to project such a tone. I should know better than to respond to a CR posting fresh in the door from work on a Monday.
>
> In fact, it is an interesting question you raise: if larger frames are designed by a good builder to take into consideration the presumed greater power and mass of a large rider, therefore making them stiffer in some ways - what would the experience be of a lighter rider in the cockpit?
>
> It's a good question, and I should not have discounted it so abruptly. Again, my apologies.
>
> Damien Roohr
> Canton, CT
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "damien roohr" <droohr@comcast.net>
> To: "Thomas Adams" <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>
> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:01:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Big frames ride better? Re: Recalling San Gabriel (OT) bike shop
>
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> First I have no idea what you mean by "better."
> Generally you want a frame that is tall enough to give you about 5 inches of seat post height and still have the handlebars high enough so you can stay in the "drops" position and remove your hands from the handle bars and barely feel any strain on your lower back -- that is called balance --
>
> Your question is so fraught with variables that I can only say read the chapters on fit in books by davis phinney, lemond, armstrong, -- and the Bible:
> Bicycle Racing by Edward 'Eddie B' Borysewicz.... A web search for Gary Klein will turn up some good stuff also
>
> Damien Roohr
> Canton, ct
>
> (Who - at nearly 6-6 has spent 25 years thinking about and experimenting with frame size )
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Adams" <thomasthomasa@yahoo.com>
> To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:15:04 PM
> Subject: [CR] Big frames ride better? Re: Recalling San Gabriel (OT) bike shop
>
> Dear List:
>
> Like a lot of us, I can ride a reasonable spread of bike sizes, from 60 to 65 cm, and I've owned a fair number of 61 to 62 frames, because the smaller frames are easier to find. But I do feel, totally subjective I know, that the 63.5 and 64cm frames ride better.
>
> I would invite comment on whether this is due only to the larger frame putting me into a better riding position (handlebars higher, better position over the pedals, etc etc), or is it due to the longer frame tubes being "springier", and absorbing more shock? I have ridden some 65cm frames, but they seem to be not so nice riding. Coincidentally, they all took 27.0 posts, so maybe the difference is the stiffer tubing in the big frames? I'm sure there's no actual testing of this phenomenon, but are frames in the upper 1/3 of your size range more comfortable?
>
> Tom (Give me a fistful of seatpost) Adams
> Manhattan, KS USA
>
>
> --- On Mon, 1/24/11, paccoastcycles <paccoastcycles@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>
> From: paccoastcycles <paccoastcycles@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Recalling San Gabriel (OT) bike shop
> To: "Burl Simon" <burl.simon@gmail.com>, "Lorin" <lyoude@roadrunner.com>
> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Monday, January 24, 2011, 12:01 PM
>
>
> Burl, this is a left turn from your subject but it is something that I've found interesting.
>
> The comment that your Raleigh was smooth and then the revelation that it was too big is interesting.
>
> I once had a guy telling me about his magical bike that he missed so much. It was comfortable, climbed better than any bike before or since and it held a place of importance in his memory.
>
> I should say here that he was looking for a bike and told me what size he wanted. I had told him that I thought he would be a better fit on the next size up.
>
> When I asked him what happened to the magic bike, he told me that he had sold it because it was too big for him. I smiled what I imagined as a knowing smile. It was interesting to see the look of realization develope on his face. He laughed and jokingly accused me of directing the conversation to back him into that corner.
>
> Disclaimer: Bikes can be too big. It's not like I don't know that. However, I see very few on bikes that are too big and a true majority on bikes that are too small.
>
> Chuck Hoefer
> Pacific Coast Cycles
> Oceanside, Ca
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Burl Simon" <burl.simon@gmail.com>
> To: "Lorin" <lyoude@roadrunner.com>
> Cc: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 6:14 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Recalling San Gabriel (OT) bike shop
>
>
> > On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 9:13 AM, Burl Simon <burl.simon@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> my first ride downtown was to philippe's and i was riding a raleigh
> >> competition gran sport, a beautiful bike that rode extremely smooth but it
> >> was too big and i sold it; i had a french dip and the price of a coffee was
> >> the same as when philippe's opened, nine cents i think.
> >> burl simon
> >> detroit michigan u.s.a.
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 23, 2011 at 6:28 PM, Lorin <lyoude@roadrunner.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> JB,
> >>>
> >>> His name was Don Ferguson and he was a member of the 1960's Olympic
> >>> Cycling Team (tandem), Somewhere in my cycling stash I have a brochure of
> >>> the Olympic Cycling Team that includes a picture of Don. I used to live
> >>> several blocks away from the shop and spent many hours lusting after the
> >>> Swiss bikes in his shop. I recall purchasing a set of Campy side pulls from
> >>> Don when they were first produced for $60.00 (big bucks for me at the time).
> >>> Don would often ride the Tuesday and Thursday night training rides around
> >>> the Rose Bowl with the Pasadena Cycling Club sponsored by John's on
> >>> Rosemead Blvd. John's was another haunt where I lusted after a Jack
> >>> Taylor curved seat tube model and a Paramount tandem ,
> >>>
> >>> As a small child my father would take my brother and I to Philippe's for a
> >>> french dip, a dill pickle, and a piece of lemon meringue pie. The sawdust
> >>> on the floor was great and we would eat in one of the upper rooms. I
> >>> currently live in Carlsbad Ca however if we are in the LA area we try to eat
> >>> at Philippe's (it has not changed in over 100 years)
> >>>
> >>> If your going to Austin next month let me know and we can speak in person.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Lorin Youde
> >>> Carlsbad CA USA