Dear Doctor George,
You do agree that it is a Masi circa the time advertised? So it's not a fake Masi, just a fake Ferretti Team bike, right? Did other Ferretti Team bikes have that particular brake configuration and those "tuned" components? If so to both counts, are the components and brake configuration fake too? It would seem that the cost of procuring those components and having the necessary frame medications done would far outsize any potential profit from said deception. If there were photos showing it in its original team livery would that satisfy you? It doesn't have to be Pettersen's bike to be a Ferretti Team bike, right? And it is acknowledged as a re-paint so the decals may not have been done correctly. Can the Ferretti Team bikes be ascertained by serial number?
It may not be a Ferretti Team bike but we really don't know for certain, do we? I'm not comfortable at all with calling something a fake unless there is overwhelming evidence to corroborate that statement and you have offered none. I will agree that it is the seller's responsibility to back up any claims with corroboration, evidence and providence.However, it is just as, if not more, important to back up one's claims of fakery, forgery and deceit with hard evidence. Plus, I'm pretty sure no naive rube is going to be taken in by any alleged deception in this auction as only .00001% of the population (if that) even know what a Ferretti Team Masi is.
How about using the following terminology in situations such as these:
One can't be sure... The seller does not provide documentation... The claim can't be corroborated... Their is no providence....
I wish to keep a civil tone but in recent posts you have impugned the integrity of individuals without offering a scintilla of evidence. I find this unfair and inappropriate. And by the way, can you please log off with your CITY and state like the rest of us.
George Allen Lexington, Ky USA
On 1/27/2011 11:40 AM, Mike Short wrote:
> I agree with Lou, I don't know about the provenance however the frame looks
> to be period correct to me. The seller states that there is a 1972 build
> date, stamped onto the steerer - a photo would have been good. Were there
> Ferretti Team replicas made back in 1972? What ever the case it looks to be
> a very nice bike.
>
> Mike Short,
> Austin Texas,
> USA.
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:20 AM,<loudeeter@aol.com> wrote:
>
>
>> What part of it is fake? The frame looks to be a Masi from that era. That
>> could explain the brakes, right? I understand your point about it possibly
>> not being a team bike, but it is still a nice bike. I also understand your
>> animosity toward all things from this seller. I don't know whether that is
>> a "Boston" thing, or just that you are ticked off at him for some reason.
>> Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: George Hollenberg<ghollmd@gmail.com>
>> To: Fred Rednor<fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
>> Cc: Classic Rendezvous<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>> Sent: Thu, Jan 27, 2011 11:16 am
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"
>>
>>
>> The point is not the brakes-this was a Faliero innovation in about 1968 to
>> prevent to many holes being drilled into the brake bridge-but who cares--
>> the brakes are attached to a FAKE-this is NOT a Masi-Ferretti. It's a fraud
>> designed to fool us. I can't believe that no one is saying anything abut
>> this. Who cares about the brakes!
>> George
>> George Hollenberg MD
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 9:45 AM, Fred Rednor<fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> The central bolt is removed from the brake, shortened and brazed into the
>>> frame. Then the calipers are reassembled in the usual manner.
>>> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
>>>
>>> --- On Thu, 1/27/11, Anthony Taylor<ajft1942@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> From: Anthony Taylor<ajft1942@yahoo.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On eBay"
>>>> To: "George Hollenberg"<ghollmd@gmail.com>, "Classic Rendezvous"<
>>>>
>>> classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>>
>>>> Date: Thursday, January 27, 2011, 9:21 AM
>>>> It may just be ignorance on my part,
>>>> but how are the brakes attached?
>>>>
>>>> Tony Taylor
>>>> Manchester, NH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: George Hollenberg<ghollmd@gmail.com>
>>>> To: Classic Rendezvous<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Thu, January 27, 2011 5:42:12 AM
>>>> Subject: [CR] Fraud Alert-Fake "Ferretti Team Bike On
>>>> eBay"
>>>>
>>>> A bike claimed to be a "Professional cycle of the Ferretti
>>>> team of 1972 that
>>>> included the Petterssen brothers and Gianni Motta", eBay
>>>> #120676480890 is
>>>> not as represented-it's a fake.
>>>> The seller approached Alberto Masi (personal communication)
>>>> and asked him to
>>>> certify the bike as that of Ghosta Pettersen-but Ghosta
>>>> Pettersen's bike was
>>>> a 62.5 and Alberto noted that a Ferretti Masi didn't sport
>>>> De Rosa decals as
>>>> seen on this eBay bike.
>>>> Furthermore, the seller presents no proof and no
>>>> provenance that this bike
>>>> was ever owned by anyone on the Ferretti Masi team
>>>> and he never will
>>>> produce such evidence because it doesn't exist. Many
>>>> Ferretti repros exist
>>>> and one is listed in the same size as the eBay seller's
>>>> bike listed as a
>>>> reproduction in Bob Hovey's Masi Archive.
>>>> What we have is just a Masi painted and tarted up as a Masi
>>>> Ferretti-*let
>>>> the seller prove otherwise.*
>>>> George
>>>>
>>>> George Hollenberg MD
>>>> CT, USA
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> George
>>
>> George Hollenberg MD
>> CT, USA