Well Georgie Boy, Let's see, I've been pondering my response over dinner and vino; a nice Sicilian Syrah! The whole point of this exercise is to confirm that a silk road tire is not ment to get wet, as I've previously stated, isn't it? And you agree, "Gods Love" or not. Correct? To say that "for track use water exposure is unlikely" is a bit, I don't know, um..... overstating the obvious. Ever try going up the bank on a wet track (even asphalt). It don't work. But you'll come down REALY fast! And with ALLOT of friction! After riding 35 years of road and track, (7 years racing on the track starting when I was 16 and VERY fast), I find the lesson of "no coating- these are faster and lighter" less then illuminating. Lighter is faster in tires. Period (and lets not get started on bigger is faster and other fallacies. We've beat'n that dead horse many times already). Track tires, REAL track tires, DON'T have coatings. As Ted said, you use what you have, so sure you'll see "them" (coated road tires on the track). I for one, say that FMB makes as close as it gets to a Clement Tipo 3 track silk. Ever ride those? Their a fantasy! I would HEAR the guy behind me jump, and could shut him down or prepare to get on his wheel just from the "swooch swooch" announcement. HA,HA,! Great fun!
Points:
-As previously stated, I do not know if there is a difference in the "stretch" of silk dry verses wet. You say 20% of strength" is lost. Confirmed how please? And how do we correlate this to size deformation? - A Seta Extra goes from, I don't know exactly, 23mm to 28mm ("to the size of a Del Mondo", as stated by Earle), then it would stand to reason that a Del Mondo would go from, again I'm not sure, 28 to nearly 34mm at the same 20% "got bigger" deformation rate. Stand to reason? O.K, so maybe it was a jr. Del Mondo and so it grew only 10%, I don't know. I've only averaged 10,000 miles a year for the last 35 years. The only experience in that time on wet silks was in the rain on that day in Prospect Park, Brooklyn New york in 1976. Allot of guys who had the bread in the day toured on Del Mondos. Wadda youse guys have to say? -In so far as the God loving me statement is concerned, some might interpret it as condescending. I for one already know that God loves me. The bike gods too. They, however, are minor gods and demand I offer them the appropriate gifts to stay in their good graces. Todays ride in the fog was it. The "Gods Love" reference was again, a statement of the obvious. "Easy"..... well George, nothing is easy. I met a guy one day who was walking at The Balon, the local flea market where I go saturday morning to pick up good junk cheap. I was on my mountain bike at 6:30 a.m. and it was 35 degrees. As I passed him, he looked at me and said "e duro". Wa? "E duro"...... "It's hard". Turns out he had ridden 6 Giro d'Italia's. All he had to say was "e duro".
as always...enjoy, ride more, and I'm still waiting to hear back from "Cino" on the tire donation for Earle and me.
Johnny Pergolizzi Torino, Italy where I developed a "pimple" right in the middle of a Victoria tire on todays ride. I think I will install some Challange silks I let Mike Kone take my money for a few years ago at The Cirque Auction. 100% of the proceeds went to Operation Smile.
On Jan 2, 2011, at 6:14 PM, George Hollenberg wrote:
> God Love You John:
> It's pretty easy-silk loses about 20% of its strength and a lot of
> its elasticity when water exposed. Silk actually retains a lot of
> water. Since a good hand made silk tubie can have more than a Km of
> silk you're going to end up with a deformed tire and, mostly likely
> a flat.
> In wet environments, in order to have the good ride of silk and
> water resistance too some tubulars are heavily impregnated with
> chemicals that resist water. On the other hand, for track use where
> water exposure is unlikely, FMB will make a silk tubular tire with
> no coating-these are faster and lighter than the chemically
> impregnated ones.
> Check on FMB's site for the details.
> George
> George Hollenberg MD
> CT, USA
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 12:04 PM, earle.young tds.net <earle.young@tds.net
> > wrote:
> John,
>
> You got the right start with "...gives us both a pair of nos Seta
> Extras.
> You mount yours on Earle built wheels, I'll mount min on Pergo
> wheels. ... "
>
>
> But opposite directions? John, I want to ride with you. Riding in
> company is
> a good thing.
>
> In the rain? What if I am right, and an hour in the rain causes
> those tires
> to balloon out to 33 millimeters or more? Better to ride them on
> sunny,
> smooth pavement and keep them for many such rides!
>
> Beers? Yeah, Baby! Wisconsin has a plethora of rides that go to good
> breweries and/or brew pubs. My local bar 'n' grill serves great
> burgers, the
> best Reuben sandwiches in the city and has a couple of local brews
> on tap.
> It's also really close to some great riding.
>
> John, you are welcome any time, even without the silks, as are any CR
> listers.
>
> Earle "remember the final E" Young
> Madison, Wisconsin
>
> 8 AM, John <jtperry330@me.com> wrote:
>
> > Earl,
> > O.K....
> > I think we need to settle this like men;
> > Josh "Cino" Burger gives us both a pair of norubens Seta Extras.
> You mount
> > yours on Earl built wheels, I'll mount mine Pergo wheels. We
> ride in
> > opposite directions, in the rain, minimum 1 hour. We have a few
> beers and
> > then we measure the tires.
> > Duel?
> > Funny thing is we coulda done that at L'Eroica this year.
> Although
> > it would have been in the same direction and wine. That would be
> fine too!
> > You in Josh?
> > So what were saying is that wet silk expands ALLOT more
> then wet
> > cotton, aye?
> >
> > enjoy,
> >
> > Johnny Pergolizzi
> > Torino, Italy
> > where the kilometers today were on a the L'Eroica lavender 72
> Colnago in
> > pea soup fog.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Jan 2, 2011, at 2:19 PM, earle.young tds.net wrote:
> >
> > My one experience with silks in heavy rain contradicts John
> Pergolizzi. On
> >> RAAM 19874 (with fully on-topic equipment), Elaine Mariolle was
> riding a
> >> pair of well aged Criterium Seta Extra's. In Las Vegas, of all
> places, we
> >> hit rain that was rim-deep all across the road. I had been
> sleeping when we
> >> hit the rain, and she had been riding for an hour or more with
> the tubulars
> >> soaked. When I checked them, they had stretched to the size of
> del Mondos!
> >> That had confirmed the conventional knowledge of the time: Don't
> ride
> >> silks in the rain.
> >> And then there are the early nylon tires. Even a sprinkle was
> enough to
> >> make the 230 gram Raleigh/Panasonic nylon tires of the late '70s
> and early
> >> 80's treacherously slippery.
> >>
> >> Earle Young
> >> Madison, Wisconsin
> >> Offering expert wheelbuilding services for classic and modern
> bicycles
> >>
> >
> >
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --
> George
>
> George Hollenberg MD
> CT, USA