You may think it's overstated, but that's your opinion. In fact, I'm looking at a set of LF (LF= Large Flange, SF= Small flange) 36h, 4x wheels laced to 700c Fiamme red label sprint tubular rims. Guess what? The spokes overlap adjacent spoke heads. I haven't seen your complete wheel, but please check again.
FWIW, any time a spoke touches/crosses an adjacent spoke head, you are asking for trouble, IMO. Not only does it introduce an unnecessary stress point on the spoke, but also on the hub flange, not to mention a source of noise, clicking, etc.
This topic is a no-brainer to me, so I'll leave it as my opinion and live with it.
Take care, John
On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:01 PM, Greg Reiche <shop@cyclart.com> wrote:
> John,
>
>
>
> Your assertion about wheelbuilders is mostly correct, but overstated. I've
> seen some wacky wheels in my twenty years in the industry. I remember a
> wheel with ALL the drive side spokes head-in, and ALL the non-drive head-out
> (with the pushing spokes overlaying the pulling,) to help equalize the
> tension. Seemed to work fine, and still seems less nutty to me than many of
> the recent off-topic wheel lacing patterns I see.
>
>
>
> That said, frankly it is not a matter of opinion whether a Campagnolo HF
> 36h hub laced 4x makes spokes cross adjacent heads. Please review the photo
> in my previous post; they simply do not. They get very close, but do not
> actually touch.
>
>
>
> Which speaks to "design." Campagnolo could have made their hub flange any
> size they wished. Since 36 was for decades the most commonly used (and
> Campy's default) drilling, I suspect they designed their hub flange diameter
> specifically to allow building a 36h hub 4x to a 28" tubular (or 700c
> clincher) rim, which gets spokes as close as possible to tangential without
> crossing spoke heads.
>
>
>
> Greg Reiche
>
> CyclArt, Inc.
>
> Vista, CA USA
>
> shop@cyclart.com
>
>
>
> *From:* classic-rendezvous-lightweight-vintage-bicycles@googlegroups.com[mailto:
> classic-rendezvous-lightweight-vintage-bicycles@googlegroups.com] *On
> Behalf Of *Dale Brown
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 23, 2011 7:13 PM
>
> *To:* classic-rendezvous-lightweight-vintage-bicycles@googlegroups.com
> *Subject:* Re: {Classic Rendezvous} Campag HF Hubs vs. Spoke X-ings ?
>
>
>
> John wrote:
>
> "I don't know how you can say "they do amazingly well".
>
> Ha ha! Many 1960s and 1970s bikes, esp track irons, used wheels built this
> way reliably for years and years. I agree it's pretty funky but it works. I
> have seen them, worked on them and even built wheels myself HF and 4X. Guess
> you haven't talked to all the wheel builders yet! :)
>
> The lesson here, in my opinion, is for us not to be dogmatic or absolutist
> about things BICYCLE, many practices have happily existed that may be less
> than optimum in theory...
>
>
>
> Dale (45 years in the trade)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 8:56 PM, John Businger <jbusinger@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I don't know how you can say "they do amazingly well" if something is not
> by design. There is not a wheelbuilder in the world who would ever recommend
> the practice of spokes touching adjacent spoke heads. Sometimes bad ideas
> survive, but that's about it.
>
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 5:49 PM, Dale Brown <dalebbrown@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> John wrote:
>
> <<Dont'r recommend 4x as the spokes will touch adjacent spoke heads>>
>
>
>
> Actually quite a few On Topic bikes came with wheels using 4X on High
> Flange hubs. Despite over lapping spokes, etc. they do amazingly well...
>
> On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 3:41 PM, John Businger <jbusinger@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Dont'r recommend 4x as the spokes will touch adjacent spoke heads. 2x not
> recommended either as you will not achieve true tangential spoking
> (push/pill). Radial will work as long as you maintain even and maximum
> tension.
>
>
>
> John Businger,
>
> Brookline, MA
>
> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 7:01 PM, <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net> wrote:
>
> 2x, 3x, 4x are fine.
>
> Don't recommend radial because of the damage risks involved...
>
> =8-)
>
> Robert Shackelford
> San Jose, CA USA
>
>
> Quoting Richard Cielec <teaat4p@gmail.com>:
>
> > Ahoy !
> > Re: Campag High Flange hubs, NR/SR, Tipo, 1970's- End of Time Line
> > I am asking for reason of my definite ignorance of the physics and
> > stresses placed upon hub flanges.
> >
> > Are radial and 2X crossings compatible with these high flange hubs 32H
> > and 36H ? Assumption is that hubs are in good condition, of course.
> > Application would be road riding, not racing. Clilncher and tubular
> > rims. Rider weight approx. 140 lbs.
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Richard Cielec
> > Chicago, Illinois; U.S.A.
> >
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> cycles de ORO, Inc.
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