This story involves two framebuilders, sort of. In my shop was a framebuilder and a frame from another framebuilder. I was enthusing about the frame from the absent one to the one who was present. Present framebuilder is dismissive of the frame from absentee because he says, the stay ends are done in an easier to achieve fashion than the way he does it. True story. You may know one or both of these framebuilders.
It was more than thirty years ago that that happened. I like the way the absentee frame builder finished his stay ends more than I do the ones the other guy uses. Neither way would cause me to like or dislike a frame.
It is an odd concept to me that a framebuilder would see a way of doing something as "better" because it is harder to do.
Chuck Hoefer
Pacific Coast Cycles
Oceanside, Ca.
> Nagasawaphiles,
>
> I've owned a few examples, most recently a frame I custom ordered in 2007
> from Mr. Nagasawa, that was facilitated by a friend living in Japan.
>
> What is the general impression about "what these frames go for"?
> I paid about $1400 for a custom order track frame, with headset and bb
> included, about $300 worth of parts. Is $1,100 for a custom made frame
> by a living legend considered too expensive to be fabricated with "lowly"
> cast drop outs? In the world of custom framebuilding pricing these days,
> that
> seems like a deal. I consider Nagasawa bikes to be nicely made,
> but more hammer than art, and i'm perfectly fine with that. They are
> what
> they are.
>
> Grant McLean
> Toronto, Canada
>
>
> From: "Scott L. Minneman" <minneman@onomy.com>
>
> I agree that the Nagasawa lugsets are beautiful, and they seem very easy
> to
> work with, and I'm certain that there's skill involved in making a frame
> with them. Their design is exquisite....but I do wonder a bit about (and
> am
> slightly upset by) the extent to which they mimic what a master
> framebuilder
> might/would do with real dropouts and tubing. It almost strikes me as
> disingenuous to make a plug-joined investment-cast part that looks like a
> contoured-tip dropout with an open-tube stay (or fork blade), complete
> with
> drawn-back braze.
>
> Furthermore, if one is making these parts (moreover, creating the original
> masters), they could've done most *anything* with the design (arbitrary
> amounts of detail, novel shapes, etc.), and this is what was chosen?
>
> I'm sure that opinions vary, but I think I want a little more
> craftsmanship
> if I'm paying what these frames go for. I know it was expensive to tool
> up
> these parts, and I'm sure the unit cost is considerable, but there has
> also
> been a lot of time to amortize that initial expense.
>
> Sorry...just feeling a little growly this evening (and those pictures of
> the
> pre-investment-cast Nagasawa just drove home my point...so much sweeter to
> know it's all *real* craft).
>
> Scott Minneman
> San Francisco, CA USA