Hi All:
I concur with Eric. I have purchased many things so far from this list and have in all cases been quite satisfied. I buy parts for use on bikes that are going to ridden, so my criteria is not the same as it would be if I were putting together a museum piece. If I thought I could afford to put together that one special bicycle I would probably have to continuously pick through NOS until I went crazy. I doubt that based upon my past experience that we could EVER come up with a grading system that is truly accurate. What about the case of NIB, with some obvious manufacturing flaws that are only cosmetic in nature? This situation would be fine on a new bike and many customers probably would have not noticed, but would not by appropriate for a museum piece. A good example is the brazing on a PX-10. The quality can vary considerably, but the bike is still just as functional. Who hasn't seem some new Campy parts that you wouldn't put on your bike. How about some new categories NIB/BPR (bad production run) or NIB/TTIGPLIT (the tooling is getting pretty long in tooth)?
Cheers,
Jim Narlesky San Jose, CA
ps: I really enjoyed the story about the camera being scrutinized.
> Is anyone up to reading another post on this thread? If so, here's my two
> cents:
>
> It doesn't matter how much effort, thought and consensus goes into a
rating
> system - it will not work, not here, not there (ebay), not anywhere.....
>
> I have been restoring, buying and selling British sports cars for well
over
> twenty years - same issues applied regarding grading. What I have learned
> from experience is this, regardless of the definition of the various grade
> levels, is that everyone sees the item being graded through there own
eyes,
> and rarely, very rarely, do different eyes see the same thing. Many
> automotive/classic car grading systems exist and the only time any one of
> them works is within the one company or person using it. There is
> consistency then, but as soon as that system is used by two or more
> companies/people, they apply the standard differently. Same will happen
> here.
>
> A grading system will only help to have a common definition for each of
the
> rating tiers; but what has not been discussed is the fact that the rating
> being applied is based on the individual person rating it. Can having a
> rating system help those of us on the CR list - probably not, my
experience
> has been that everything I've bought through this list I've been satisfied
> with - I think we are an honest lot of people interested more in the hobby
> and friendships then we are in maximizing a profit at the expense of same.
>
> Over the past year I've gone through a lot of boxes of my stuff, struggled
> with the notion of selling it (I like to collect) since I may need it in
the
> future; once I made the decision to sell I put together a list with as
> honest a description as my eyes and integrity allow; then I post to the
> group; then I add that I will supply JPEG's on request; then I send the
item
> out before payment is received; then I will accept the item back for a
> refund if it isn't what was expected - never happened yet. Such a system
> has worked fine without a rigid list of definitions and grades. I am
> comfortable with how I judge, describe and rate an item - I would not be
> comfortable applying my judgement to a predetermined rating list agreed
too
> by some consensus.
>
> So what's my point? Know who your buying from. If that's not possible,
> know what you expect and communicate that back to the seller with a
request
> for photo's to back up their claim that the item is to your expectations.
> Yes, the burden should be on the seller, especially on this CR list. The
> problem exists mainly on ebay or other selling venues, accept that the
> burden is clearly on the buyer and as has been pointed out in various
> previous posts, ask questions, get good clear photos, and if something
seems
> fishy - it is - always.
>
> I say, forget a rating system - it will create more confusion on this list
> by forcing people to use a canned rating instead of their own description.
> A person's own description will almost always be better then forcing them
to
> apply a canned version.
>
> That's my experience and opinion for whatever it is worth.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Eric Elman
> Somers, CT where it has been in the low 60's today