Free tubes how cool, I have enough cash on hand to do this anyway that is needed but I appreciate the support. Brian Bayless and Richard Sachs are great as a people (and as a framebuilders) Both have offered to help with the project. I like making posts that get a reaction the amount of emails has been fun. It was worth the post to have people of this group to correspond with. Too bad we don't write to each other without some conflict. How does the group feel about a track frame? Sam D.