Re: [CR] Seat position was: 1930's Bates Frame

Example: Racing:Jacques Boyer

From: Joe Bender-Zanoni <>
Subject: Re: [CR] Seat position was: 1930's Bates Frame
References: <>
Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 01:31:54 -0400

This illustrates my point a way back that the net position relative to the bottom bracket does not change all that much. The Brennan Bros. and Joe Nevelle pointed out that 2-3 inches behind the axle was ideal for power and, more importantly to them, spin.

The laid back seat angles required the forward seat. I think the extemely shallow head angles (68 degree) ruin the handling af any bike and credit Pop Brennan with the innovation of steep (74 degree) head angles. The French Bastide bikes may have played a role too.

That's the remnants of the lore from the Newark Velodrome, where people made more money than any other pro athletes, except boxers, prior to 1920. Of course, the all important element to win the sprints, as they put it, was a "greasy ass".

Joe B-Z
NNW of Newark a few miles

----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Rafael Rednor"
Sent: Friday, September 20, 2002 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [CR] 1930's Bates Frame

> > Just to support what Hilary has already said,
> > many of these 30's frames were ridden with
> > short stems and long seatposts...
> Friends,
> It's probably also worth noting how the seats were mounted,
> at least if the Baxter "Star" photo is indicative of how most
> bikes were set up in that era:
> That is, the seat is mounted far forward of the seat post, in
> the opposite manner of how we would do it today. That serves
> to shorten the "effective length" of the top tube. So at first
> I thought that the top tube on the Bates was outrageously long
> but now I would have to reconsider.
> Best regards,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia