As I mentioned before. I am a novice compared to most of you on this list. As such I value the outings and comments about the same because it has been like going to school for me. Before I found this forum I had no idea what a Rene Herse, Bob Jackson, Alex Singer, Jack Taylor etc was let alone what they looked like. I got lucky and scored a Rene Herse tandem not because I knew what I was doing but because this list taught me what they looked like and what to look for. It would probably have wound up in a dumpster if not for this forum. Similarly I am a MTB convert that rides road regularly with a group and alone and enjoy it very much. I have a lot of bikes and have ridden every one. Because of this forum I purchased a Bob Jackson frame and built it up and it is one of my favorite riders not to mention that it is the envy of my group. This forum and the outings in particular will only enhance the hobby and bring new blood. If the intent is to hide bikes and knowledge than what is the point of this forum. It would be rather boring to read the emails about word pronounciation only. Oh yeah, did I mention that I did not even know what a Cambio Corsa or Vittoria Margarita was before this site and I purchased both because of it. Stop the nonsense and get on with the hobby and fun of it.