Hi,
Here I go ranting (or rambling). Hang on and mabye I'll get to a point (or not).
I will say that I'm a fairly young framebuilder (25 yrs) and that it's quite hard to get started in this area (time, equipment and especially experience). Actually, I think that the time and equipment alone makes it hard. When you throw in experience it makes it darned near impossible and life altering risky!!! That makes an enormus barrier to entry plus the fact that you can't really learn anything without paying a lot to attend classes on the west coast (especially if you live on the east coast). Framebuilders can't afford to hire apprentices, even as a volunteer to sweep metal shavings on the floor and watch. We get in the way and make things a mess just by being there. I read about old classic and modern greats who got apprenticeships at some of the fantastic frame houses in England and it all seems like a pipe dream to me. The bike boom did some folks a great favor but a lot of the small guys didn't....
I've learned everything so far by trial and error and emailing my mistakes to others. I bought my own torches and found cheap tubes to start on. I've taken them to a few good builders in my area (thank goodness there are some here) and let them laugh and point out my errors. I then do it again and again until I had no errors. I really don't know what I'd do if there were no builders here.
I'll speak on lugged bikes because it is a passion of mine. It's just hard to sell them. TIG welding is cheap and aluminum is cheap. Customers are very aware of price, especially with the larger companies that so proliferate our industry these days (US companies and foreign companies, no exceptions). With customers being sold on component choices more and more (instead of on the frame) and lightweight being paramount, it gets even harder. I think that in some ways lugged frames and even a very classic lugless frame sells itself. If you put a handmade frame from some of our listmembers next to another "production" frame, then it becomes obvious to a customer which one is better quality. It's just harder now more than ever for even the high end shops to be able to do that.
I hope that when I grow more experienced that I can begin to dream of holding a torch like Richard Sachs, Brian, Dave and others. They are a golden mean that I hope to get to someday. I learned things the hard way because there's not many other ways to do it. I think though that seeing what can be done allows us to reach for higher goals than even the old builders couldn't imagine. If they had seen some of the high end custom frames made now....
I would give my eye teeth to be an apprentice (for free even) to some of these builders, but until I win the lottery (or they win), noone has the time or money to allow for beginners. It's just a fact of life that you don't get rich easily, or even at all :-) in bikes.
Dave Whalley Minneapolis, MN (soon to be Asheville, NC)
-----Original Message----- From: davebohm [mailto:davebohm@cox.net] Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2002 1:18 PM To: Dennis; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Frame building skills
I thought this an interesting question. I have mixed emotions about this.
There are but a dozen or so builders turning out great lugged frames in the U.S. It is a concern of mine that once this group retires or leaves the biz there would not necessarily be builders who replace them. Framebuilding is alive and well in the states but I have noticed that many of the newest builders specialize in TIG welding and although they have an appreciation for lugged bikes have no intention of learning the trade or doing it for their own satisfaction.
It is hard for the experienced ones to impart their knowledge because of the time involved in teaching a student. The concept of apprentices is an anachronism. There are but a few places one can go to work and get paid and make lugged frames anymore.
I don't know if I am the youngest in this group. Probably close and I have learned what I know so far a little differently than Brian, Richard and the others. When I first started there were no places to go work for, asking one of these guys to teach me with no prior experience would not have gone over well. Jeez, to be honest I hadn't even seen a lot of lugged frame being it was the early nineties and they were already going away then. So I attended United Bicycle Institute. This is the main educational avenue right now. I took a two week class. What that gave me was a quick introduction into what I would need and the general process.
I think the thing going for me is my prior silversmithing experience. The fancy stuff, which is usually the hard part for most is the easiest for me. The actual construction process was the hard part. I really wished I had a mentor for this so I would not have made so many experiments as I like to put it. I have to say that everyone is fairly open about how to do things and I have gotten invaluable information from many on this list and I thank them for that. Sometimes with certain things I am a little tight lipped, but if someone really wants to know and shows a propensity for it I will tell them.
I think there will always be a few classic builders. If there is a will there is a way.
Sincerely,
David Bohm ----- Original Message ----- From: Dennis To: Classics Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 8:52 AM Subject: [CR]Frame building skills
With all the frame builders out there turning out beautifully constructed lugged frames, what (if anything) are they doing to pass on their trade? It would be a shame to loose all that knowledge when they "expire".
Dennis Stover
Arleta, CA
http://home.ix.netcom.com/
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