I recently purchased a NOS Raleigh Pro frame without a fork thinking the one off my recently totaled pro would fit. It did not and I am now trying to source a fork for it. I need the one with the sloping chrome Crown and blades. Thanks for any information you can provide.
Victor Frank Brookline, MA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 9:15 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 4, Issue 25
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Today's Topics:
1. Tubing Repair... 2. Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,Paramount Quality -Chrome! 3. Elefante shifter??? (Tom Sanders) 4. Re: Once more- Any Campagnolo Experts Here? 5. Re: funny little bike from the thrift store 6. Re: Dent removal? (Louis Schulman) 7. Re: Oddball Campagnolo gears (Chuck Schmidt) 8. Pino hubs (goodrichbikes) 9. Re: Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,Paramount Quality -Chrome! 10. Paramounts; how many????? (Richard M Sachs) 11. Re: Campy components & WTB a DeRosa (Mary Kaminski) 12. Sedisport chains (brian blum) 13. Schwinn Superiors (brian blum) 14. Re: Paramounts; how many????? (Brandon Ives) 15. Now Schwinn Superior (Joe Bender-Zanoni) 16. Re: Now Schwinn Superior (Joe Bender-Zanoni) 17. Re: Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,Paramount Quality -Chrome! (Joe Bender-Zanoni)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:31:23 -0400 (EDT) From: <wheelman@nac.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Tubing Repair... Message-ID: <55374.146.152.216.1.1049751083.squirrel@webmail.nac.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 1
A guy came into my LBS and showed off a tool that he made to remove dents from bike tubes. First off it only works for seat and head tubes because you have access to the inside. He is a machinest by profession and basically he designed a tool that works like the old stem inside of the steer tube. It basically uses two metal cylinders that have an angled ramp on one end of each. One cylinder is fixed while the other floats on a threaded rod. The rod goes through the fixed cylinder that is unthreaded. As you tighten the threaded rod it forces the two cylinders to engage eachother and the two angled ends act like ramps forcing them to expand against one another. This causes them to press against the dent and push it out. I have seen it done on a chrome seat tube of an Atala track bike and it worked like a charm.
Ray Homiski Elizabeth, NJ
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:31:15 EDT From: CYCLESTORE@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,Paramount Quality -Chrome! Message-ID: <19f.1314130f.2bc34823@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 2
In a message dated 4/7/03 3:03:57 PM, classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org= =20 writes:
<< Subject: [CR]Paramount Quality Message-ID: <001001c2fd21$0142fa70$3c8c56d8@home> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=3D"iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2
I have two Schwinn Paramounts. My chrome one rides like a nice Italian bike and the painted one rides like a piece of crap. My two cents worth! Sterling Peters San Diego >>
Sterling,
Your findings are correct. It is a well known fact that all chrome bikes are= =20 always much better than mere painted facsimiles. Experto's like Dale Brown=20 and Ken Wallace will certainly back me up on these facts.
In full chrome I have: 1966 Robin Hood roadster 1983 Rene Herse Tourer 1981-3 (I forgot) Cycles Villegran tandem 2002 Alex Moulton Pylon (full stainless steel, almost chromage anyway).
They all look and ride beautifully.
It is my belief that partial chroming helps the ride as well.
Yours in Cycling,
Gilbert Anderson
North Road Bicycle Company 519 W. North St. Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Toll Free Ph: 800=E2=80=A2321=E2=80=A25511 Local Ph: 919=E2=80=A2828=E2=80=A28999 E-mail: cyclestore@aol.com ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:51:44 -0400 From: "Tom Sanders" <tsan7759142@attbi.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Elefante shifter??? Message-ID: <003e01c2fd4f$e1660b00$ead2f50c@C1921978A> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 3
OK...Once again I'll be the straight man for you folks. Are you kidding = about this mysterious Elefante shifter or what? Could it be one that = never forgets what gear you're in? Not a shifter for the thin skinned? = One with a built-in trunk? Probably about to be embarrassed in Lansing, Mi Tom Sanders
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:12:07 EDT From: Philcycles@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Once more- Any Campagnolo Experts Here? Message-ID: <6.e30b64c.2bc351b7@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4
In a message dated 4/7/03 11:07:36 AM, kurtsperry@netscape.net writes:
>And in an unrelated question, has anyone here ever actually seen an
Elefante
>shifter?
>
>
Yup. It's big.
Phil Brown
San Rafael, Ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:22:24 EDT From: TGMetals98@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]funny little bike from the thrift store Message-ID: <127.26acbe45.2bc35420@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
In a message dated 4/7/2003 11:01:12 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rocklube@adnc.com writes:
<< There are LOTS of household uses for a bicycle. >>
Brian is in the wrong profession -- where are creative interior decorators when you need them?! I personally use my bikes as a rather sophisticated burglar alarm. You see, scattered about the house strategically will confound and confuse the would-be burglar and hopefully wake up the lazy rottweiler...
As for classic content -- who is coming to the Copake swap and auction this Friday and Saturday?
Amanda Graham Copake NY ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 18:57:58 -0400 (EDT) From: "Louis Schulman" <louiss@gate.net> To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, "Brandon Ives" <monkeylad@mac.com> Subject: Re: [CR]Dent removal? Message-ID: <E192fYt-0002rB-00@hall.mail.mindspring.net> In-Reply-To: <7A43D323-6848-11D7-99D3-00039356BD92@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: Louis Schulman <louiss@gate.net> Message: 6
Could you describe the technique for "rolling a dent"? Or is this described somewhere on the net?
Is it correct to say that pressure applied around the dent causes it to pop out?
Since the dent on my Hetchins is in the middle of the top tube, and is a "soft dent" (paint not even scratched), it would seem to be well-suited for this treatment.
Louis
On Sun, 6 Apr 2003 08:57:32 -0700, Brandon Ives wrote:
#On Saturday, April 5, 2003, at 07:07 PM, Louis Schulman wrote: #> Is there any accepted technique for removing such dents? In cars, this #> is not such a problem, since cars are made of sheet metal. But tubes #> present a different problem. Is filling the only answer? # #It depends on the dent. I've rolled out lots of dents in the past #using tubing blocks. There's also nothing wrong with a little Bondo #and touchup paint. I really don't like the idea of replacing tubes or
#filling them with brass since it means reheating things and that always #a last resort. Many dents are severe enough or in the wrong spot so #tube replacement would be necessary. Rolling dents is a technique that #I doesn't get used much any more with all the different tube profiles #and diameters. #Good luck, #Brandon"monkeyman"Ives #SB, CA # #_______________________________________________ #Classicrendezvous mailing list #Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org #http://www.bikelist.org/mailman/listinfo/classicrendezvous
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 16:13:31 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Oddball Campagnolo gears Message-ID: <3E9205F9.2ECC9D56@earthlink.net> References: <1deec11dd7b5.1dd7b51deec1@icomcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: chuckschmidt@earthlink.net Message: 7
Steven Maasland wrote:
>
(cut)
> Speaking of rather uncommon gears, can anybody tell me more about the
> Campagnolo Sportsman gear? I have one that I believe is not working
> properly and would like to determine whetehr this is true or not. I
> would also like to know from what period it dates from.
Here's the Campagnolo Timeline entry: "1963 - In October the Record rear derailleur (chrome plated bronze) is introduced. This has a revised cage shape with the pivot behind and closer to the jockey pulley and center punched rivets. The Sportman low-cost rear derailleur is introduced."
Chuck Schmidt L.A. http://www.velo-retro.com (Campagnolo Timeline on site)
. ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 18:17:37 -0500 From: "goodrichbikes" <goodrichbikes@netzero.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Pino hubs Message-ID: <000c01c2fd5b$e823b260$ec313a41@computer> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Precedence: list Message: 8
Does anyone have photos of Pino Moroni's hubs? =20
Curt Goodrich Minneapolis, MN
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:22:31 EDT From: DavidS4410@aol.com To: CYCLESTORE@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,Paramount Quality -Chrome! Message-ID: <1d9.6e86173.2bc36237@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 9
Lots of discussion regarding Paramount quality.
>From personal experience I can pass on the following information.
When I went to work for Schwinn in 1964, I was actually riding a Masi. Of
course that changed real fast and I still have a 1965 Paramount track bike
on
which I just rode 40 miles a week ago.
I was "import oriented" during my racing career, and I definitely feel that
racing oriented LBD determined rider preference. If the LBD happened to be a
Schwinn dealer, then there were Paramounts at the races. Back then there
were not a lot of choices. Cinelli and Masi were not widely available.
Raleigh, Peugeot, and Frejus and Schwinn were the main nationally
distributed
brands. In the 50s and 60s, Schwinn's strength was the track bike. The
road
bike was another story, too flexible and sluggish handling. On the road it
didn't match up well against Cinelli, Masi, assorted British bikes, and
later
Masi.
By the late 60s and early 70s, they had been sufficiently improved to
compete
against the top imports, however most Paramounts ended in the hands of
tourists, or simply casual riders who wanted a top of the line bicycle.
When the bike boom hit, Schwinn increased production to meet demand -- to
over 3000 units in 1972 -- but they lost control of the quality. It was at
this time that Schwinn contracted with Don Mainland, a former racer and
successful tool and die maker in Racine, Wisconsin to build frames.
Approximately 40% came from Mainland. Someone on the list commented that
the
chrome plated frames were Mainland frames. I had never heard that, and
since
serial numbers were put on after the frames were built, there was no way to
tell a factory built frame from a Mainland frame.
By the end of the 70s, the Paramount had been passed by, technologically.
In
1979, Paramount production was shut down. The edict was that if Schwinn
could not build a world class bike, then none would be built until it could.
In 1982, a new state of the art Paramount was introduced built at the
Waterford, Wisconsin facility managed by Marc Muller, a frame builder that
Schwinn had hired to head up this project.
To sum up, I would say that Paramounts built in the 72 and 73 were on the
lower side of the quality scale. I have a 71 and a 77 that are fine.
As far as ride characteristics go, it depends on which model you have. A P15
touring frame would by design provide a comfortable, seemly unresponsive
ride. A P13 racing frame would provide a more responsive, quicker feel.
Does a chrome frame handle or ride better than a painted one? I don't think
so.
It was a big commitment for Schwinn to set up the Waterford facility.
Schwinn never made money on Paramounts, but the Paramount racing heritage
kept it alive and the Schwinn family never forgot that.
Dave Staub,
Orange, Ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 20:19:14 -0400 From: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com> To: DavidS4410@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Paramounts; how many????? Message-ID: <20030407.201944.-206023.32.richardsachs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 10
am i reading this right? 3000 paramounts made in 1972? e-RICHIE chester, ct connecticut-where men are men and women are champions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
On Mon, 7 Apr 2003 19:22:31 EDT DavidS4410@aol.com writes:
Lots of discussion regarding Paramount quality.
>From personal experience I can pass on the following information.
When I went to work for Schwinn in 1964, I was actually riding a Masi.
Of
course that changed real fast and I still have a 1965 Paramount track
bike on
which I just rode 40 miles a week ago.
I was "import oriented" during my racing career, and I definitely feel
that
racing oriented LBD determined rider preference. If the LBD happened to
be a
Schwinn dealer, then there were Paramounts at the races. Back then there
were not a lot of choices. Cinelli and Masi were not widely available. Raleigh, Peugeot, and Frejus and Schwinn were the main nationally distributed brands. In the 50s and 60s, Schwinn's strength was the track bike. The road bike was another story, too flexible and sluggish handling. On the road it didn't match up well against Cinelli, Masi, assorted British bikes, and later Masi. By the late 60s and early 70s, they had been sufficiently improved to compete against the top imports, however most Paramounts ended in the hands of tourists, or simply casual riders who wanted a top of the line bicycle. When the bike boom hit, Schwinn increased production to meet demand -- to
over 3000 units in 1972 -- but they lost control of the quality. It was at this time that Schwinn contracted with Don Mainland, a former racer and successful tool and die maker in Racine, Wisconsin to build frames. Approximately 40% came from Mainland. Someone on the list commented that the chrome plated frames were Mainland frames. I had never heard that, and since serial numbers were put on after the frames were built, there was no way to tell a factory built frame from a Mainland frame. By the end of the 70s, the Paramount had been passed by, technologically. In 1979, Paramount production was shut down. The edict was that if Schwinn could not build a world class bike, then none would be built until it could. In 1982, a new state of the art Paramount was introduced built at the Waterford, Wisconsin facility managed by Marc Muller, a frame builder that Schwinn had hired to head up this project. To sum up, I would say that Paramounts built in the 72 and 73 were on the
lower side of the quality scale. I have a 71 and a 77 that are fine. As far as ride characteristics go, it depends on which model you have. A P15 touring frame would by design provide a comfortable, seemly unresponsive ride. A P13 racing frame would provide a more responsive, quicker feel.
Does a chrome frame handle or ride better than a painted one? I don't think so. It was a big commitment for Schwinn to set up the Waterford facility. Schwinn never made money on Paramounts, but the Paramount racing heritage
kept it alive and the Schwinn family never forgot that. Dave Staub, Orange, Ca
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 19:58:29 -0400 From: Mary Kaminski <marykaminski@mac.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Campy components & WTB a DeRosa Message-ID: <2874292.1049759909173.JavaMail.marykaminski@mac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 11
Hi All,
Two quick questions:
First, I just acquired a Campy GS crankset & pedals in good condition, but they could both do with a wee bit o' polish. Suggestions as to what to use to bring out the sparkle? Or any suggestions as to what absolutely not to use?
Second, the guy I purchased these components from is looking for a 49-50cm DeRosa, no newer than the mid '80s. Anyone hear of any FS (frame/fork or complete bike), please let me know, offlist. I have no interest in this financially, I just thought this group would be a good resource to ask.
As always, TIA
Mary Kaminski from snowy (again!!) Philly, PA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:12:11 -0700 From: "brian blum" <bbspokes@lycos.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Sedisport chains Message-ID: <NKOCABDAOBFFJCAA@mailcity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: bbspokes@lycos.com Message: 12
I started using the Sedisport in either 1974 or 1975 so it is a classic chain, though it was revolutionary at the time. Claims to be lighter, more flexible, and stronger it was the first bushingless chain available. Brian in Berkeley
____________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 17:13:48 -0700 From: "brian blum" <bbspokes@lycos.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Schwinn Superiors Message-ID: <HIFEEHLIEDFFJCAA@mailcity.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: bbspokes@lycos.com Message: 13
The 60's Schwinn Superiors I have owned had Ashtubula cranksets from Huret. Brian in Berkeley
____________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 17:32:38 -0700 From: Brandon Ives <monkeylad@mac.com> To: Richard M Sachs <richardsachs@juno.com> Cc: DavidS4410@aol.com Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Paramounts; how many????? Message-ID: <9A0723D2-6959-11D7-852E-00039356BD92@mac.com> In-Reply-To: <20030407.201944.-206023.32.richardsachs@juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v551) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14
On Monday, April 7, 2003, at 05:19 PM, Richard M Sachs wrote:
> am i reading this right?
> 3000 paramounts made in 1972?
Nope, he said OVER 3000 units. All I can say is. . . damn. That's quite a few more frames in one year than many individual builders ever built in a lifetime. This would also explain why a large majority we see are early '70s.
So Dave you said that Waterford started building the Paramounts in '82. Did they continue to build them even when the Paramount name was sent to Japan? What were the numbers from US and Japan? How many got built at match and was Waterford still building them in the end?
Sorry if this is all a little OT, but I'd like to have some more info on the demise of one of the most historic American racing marquees. thanks, Brandon"monkeyman"Ives SB. CA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:42:45 -0400 From: Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> To: Bruce Schrader <bcschrader@yahoo.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Now Schwinn Superior Message-ID: <006501c2fd67$c6b7fa80$6400a8c0@compaqcomputer> References: <20030407195458.10485.qmail@web9205.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 15
I agree with Bruce. I don't know of a Superior without a threaded BB.
I think this model name went back to the 1890s and was Schwinns top lightweight until the Paramount and then represent the second US built line in many incarnations. It seemed to come and go in the model line. The Schwinn World or New World would be the model with an Ashtabula crank In the early 50's, even the Continental had a threaded BB.
My wife has a Superior from about 1975. For some reason they changed the Sport Tourer name to Superior for those last few years.
Joe Bender-Zanoni
Great Notch, NJ
> My memory says that all Schwinn Superiors, whether
> fillet brazed or lugged had threaded bottom brackets
> and three piece cranks. The fillet brazed Super
> Sports used straight gage cromo tubing and one piece
> cranks (steel, forged, Astabula).
>
> Bruce Schrader
> San Francisco
>
> Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:33:39 EDT
> From: DavidS4410@aol.com
> To: monkeylad@mac.com, sterling@tns.net
> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Subject: Re: [CR]Paramount Quality
> Hi Brandon,
> In regard to Schwinn Superiors, are you talking about
> the late
> 50s-early 60s
> version
> with the filet brazed cromo frame and one piece crank,
> or the later 80s
> version with nervex lugs and 531 tubing.
> Dave Staub
> Orange, Ca
>
>
> =====
> "Not all those that wander are lost."
> -J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 20:53:24 -0400 From: Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> To: Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net>, Bruce Schrader <bcschrader@yahoo.com>, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Now Schwinn Superior Message-ID: <008401c2fd69$42cfc020$6400a8c0@compaqcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 16
Well I stand corrected too! So I guess for 62 and 63 an Ashtabula BB Superior existed.
Someone with energy could make a big chart of these mid line fluctuations over the years between gas-pipe, cro-mo; fillet brazed, welded or lugged; Ashtabula or "continental" (threaded) bb; and the various "lightweight" brand names. Superior, World, New World, Continental, Sierra, Sport (or Sports?) Tourer ...
Joe B-Z
GNNJ
<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Now Schwinn Superior
> I agree with Bruce. I don't know of a Superior without a threaded BB.
>
> I think this model name went back to the 1890s and was Schwinns top
> lightweight until the Paramount and then represent the second US built
line
> in many incarnations. It seemed to come and go in the model line. The
> Schwinn World or New World would be the model with an Ashtabula crank In
the
> early 50's, even the Continental had a threaded BB.
>
> My wife has a Superior from about 1975. For some reason they changed the
> Sport Tourer name to Superior for those last few years.
>
> Joe Bender-Zanoni
> Great Notch, NJ
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bruce Schrader" <bcschrader@yahoo.com>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 3:54 PM
> Subject: [CR]Re: Paramount Quality
>
>
> > My memory says that all Schwinn Superiors, whether
> > fillet brazed or lugged had threaded bottom brackets
> > and three piece cranks. The fillet brazed Super
> > Sports used straight gage cromo tubing and one piece
> > cranks (steel, forged, Astabula).
> >
> > Bruce Schrader
> > San Francisco
> >
> > Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 14:33:39 EDT
> > From: DavidS4410@aol.com
> > To: monkeylad@mac.com, sterling@tns.net
> > Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> > Subject: Re: [CR]Paramount Quality
> > Hi Brandon,
> > In regard to Schwinn Superiors, are you talking about
> > the late
> > 50s-early 60s
> > version
> > with the filet brazed cromo frame and one piece crank,
> > or the later 80s
> > version with nervex lugs and 531 tubing.
> > Dave Staub
> > Orange, Ca
> >
> >
> > =====
> > "Not all those that wander are lost."
> > -J.R.R. Tolkien (1892-1973)
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> > http://tax.yahoo.com
> > _______________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 21:08:44 -0400 From: Joe Bender-Zanoni <joebz@optonline.net> To: DavidS4410@aol.com, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Classicrendezvous Digest,Paramount Quality -Chrome! Message-ID: <00e501c2fd6b$687c4da0$6400a8c0@compaqcomputer> References: <1d9.6e86173.2bc36237@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 17
The 3000 units in 1972 coincides with the Nixon price freeze I mentioned earlier. Schwinn got stuck with a government fixed price on the only domestic bike with a Campagnolo gruppo. Because of the record inflation and downward slide of the dollar imported bikes and the gruppo itself went way up in price. Everyone with any sense ordered a Paramount (I had no sense). Because of the backorders you even had a year to get the money!
Joe B-Z
GNNJ
> Lots of discussion regarding Paramount quality.
> >From personal experience I can pass on the following information.
> When I went to work for Schwinn in 1964, I was actually riding a Masi. Of
> course that changed real fast and I still have a 1965 Paramount track bike
on
> which I just rode 40 miles a week ago.
> I was "import oriented" during my racing career, and I definitely feel
that
> racing oriented LBD determined rider preference. If the LBD happened to be
a
> Schwinn dealer, then there were Paramounts at the races. Back then there
> were not a lot of choices. Cinelli and Masi were not widely available.
> Raleigh, Peugeot, and Frejus and Schwinn were the main nationally
distributed
> brands. In the 50s and 60s, Schwinn's strength was the track bike. The
road
> bike was another story, too flexible and sluggish handling. On the road
it
> didn't match up well against Cinelli, Masi, assorted British bikes, and
later
> Masi.
> By the late 60s and early 70s, they had been sufficiently improved to
compete
> against the top imports, however most Paramounts ended in the hands of
> tourists, or simply casual riders who wanted a top of the line bicycle.
> When the bike boom hit, Schwinn increased production to meet demand -- to
> over 3000 units in 1972 -- but they lost control of the quality. It was a
t
> this time that Schwinn contracted with Don Mainland, a former racer and
> successful tool and die maker in Racine, Wisconsin to build frames.
> Approximately 40% came from Mainland. Someone on the list commented that
the
> chrome plated frames were Mainland frames. I had never heard that, and
since
> serial numbers were put on after the frames were built, there was no way
to
> tell a factory built frame from a Mainland frame.
> By the end of the 70s, the Paramount had been passed by, technologically.
In
> 1979, Paramount production was shut down. The edict was that if Schwinn
> could not build a world class bike, then none would be built until it
could.
> In 1982, a new state of the art Paramount was introduced built at the
> Waterford, Wisconsin facility managed by Marc Muller, a frame builder that
> Schwinn had hired to head up this project.
> To sum up, I would say that Paramounts built in the 72 and 73 were on the
> lower side of the quality scale. I have a 71 and a 77 that are fine.
> As far as ride characteristics go, it depends on which model you have. A
P15
> touring frame would by design provide a comfortable, seemly unresponsive
> ride. A P13 racing frame would provide a more responsive, quicker feel.
> Does a chrome frame handle or ride better than a painted one? I don't
think
> so.
> It was a big commitment for Schwinn to set up the Waterford facility.
> Schwinn never made money on Paramounts, but the Paramount racing heritage
> kept it alive and the Schwinn family never forgot that.
> Dave Staub,
> Orange, Ca
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 4, Issue 25 ************************************************