Re: [CR]Ilkeston vs Worksop Raleigh Team Pro Questions

Example: Framebuilders:Brian Baylis

From: "Eric Elman" <>
To: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos" <>, <>
References: <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Ilkeston vs Worksop Raleigh Team Pro Questions
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:13:29 -0400

Some of the frames were indeed Dutch produced. I am friends with Billy Rounds, an ex-Team Raleigh America rider and will get more details on these from him next time I see him. He has told me in the past that some frames were definately Dutch. Other then his word, I have no definative proof but will try to get more details soon and post to the list.

Eric Elman
Somers, CT
gotta get to work now!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerome & Elizabeth Moos"
To: "Fred Rafael Rednor" ;

<> Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 7:57 AM Subject: Re: [CR]Ilkeston vs Worksop Raleigh Team Pro Questions

> The Raleigh Ti team at the peak of their success was managed by Dutchman
> Peter Post and had mostly Dutch riders. I never heard that the bikes were
> made in Holland, though, although it is possible, since I think Raleigh
> had bought Dutch company Gazelle by then.
> Regards,
> Jerry Moos
> Houston, TX
> Fred Rafael Rednor <> wrote:
> Peter,
> I'm thoroughly confused about this, too. But that's because
> by the time I really followed the Raleigh professional cycling
> team it seemed to be based in the Nederlands. Or were there 2
> distinct teams: one UK based and the other a basically a Dutch
> team? One reason I ask is because I was under the impression
> the Dutch Raleigh team bikes were built (in Amsterdam?) by
> Peter Serier.
> Best regards,
> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia
>> I am thoroughly confused.
>> Would that someone, anyone, would contribute a concise and
>> authoratitive
>> history of the Raleigh Team Professional! Either to the CR
>> website or
>> RetroRaleighs! I have done a thorough review of the CR List
>> archives and
>> whilst there has been a lot posted on the subject, it's more
>> minutia than
>> an overall sense of the model's history and development.
>> >From what I've gleaned, the Ilkeston Special Build Unit was
>> started in 1974
>> and assumed all of the special custom frame making production
>> formally done
>> at Worksop by Carlton under Gerald Donovan. Recall that
>> Raleigh acquired
>> Carlton in '61 and marketed lightweights in the UK as
>> Carltons and as
>> Raleighs in the US (with the Carlton name as well). What came
>> out of
>> Ilkeston was 100 per cent Raleigh for both the UK and export
>> with Donovan
>> heading the new unit.
>> I believe the TI Raleigh Team started in what 1972?? This
>> took over from
>> the Carlton team I believe. Previous postings by Richard
>> Sachs prove that
>> they were racing TI Raleigh Pros at the time which I assume
>> were initially
>> built at Worksop. Yellow rather than black headtubes as I
>> recall. Fastback
>> stays.
>> The pioneering use of Reynolds 753 begin, I think, in late
>> 1974, early '75.
>> It's been my understanding that henceforth only 753 was used
>> for
>> Ilkeston-made frames and that this was a frame only
>> production either for
>> the Team or special orders. I've also been told that "real"
>> team bikes
>> often lacked the Reynolds frame transfers. All Ilkeston-made
>> frames had
>> "SB" prefixed serial numbers and that true team bikes made
>> for specific
>> riders were also so indicated on the bottom bracket. I think
>> TI Team
>> machines were all Super Record fitted. 3TTT stems and bars
>> until the late
>> '70s and then Cinelli.
>> Now, the North American catalogues list "Raleigh Team
>> Professionals". But
>> were these ever built at Ilkeston?? Or were they the Worksop
>> made Team Pros
>> that prompted Eric Elman's original query? None of the
>> catalogues c.
>> 1973-75 show anything but Reynolds 531 frames with no mention
>> of 753. Then
>> the model disappears. Did this coincide with the move to 753
>> frame sets
>> only from Ilkeston? Were these Worksop Team Pros essentially
>> then
>> Professionals with SR rather than NR components and the team
>> livery??
>> Whereas the Ilkeston-made 753 frames were rather more
>> special. And lots
>> more money.
>> This was certainly the case in the early 1980s when Raleigh
>> Team Pro
>> framesets were in the catalogue. I believe in 1983 Cycling
>> Magazine
>> (UK)nominated the machine as its top bike of the year.
>> Anyway, I am sure there are folks here who know more and
>> better than I.
>> With the indulgence of people who couldn't give a toss about
>> these
>> machines, a few more exchanges might yield an outline of the
>> real story and
>> something that can be cobbled together into a useful and
>> accurate history.
>> So someone tell me I am full of crap and set the story
>> straight once and
>> for all. Please.
>> Peter Kohler
>> Washington DC USA
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