I've really enjoyed all the good responses revolving around the hub of the debate. A long time ago after accumulating 300,000 miles on various hubs, I quit counting miles, and just enjoyed the different ride qualities those hubs and equipment provided. We can discuss till the hubs of hell freeze over, but trust me: There is a difference in the ride. Garcia's input was very good. There must be some government grant money for such a "wheel" serious subject as this. Just think of all the fun we'd have with all the permutations of hubs,rims, spokes, tires, tubes and their variables. A propeller head's Nirvana. I remember watching some six-day riders doing the last hour of racing eating sugar cubes laced with champagne to finish. They were going in circles, too. It'll drive us all to drink. What a way to go! I'm spinning on my rollers already! Ted Ernst. (not yet looped)