Sam; What book are you talking about. Peter
> The 48/49 catalog(via Chuck Schmidt)shows two bi-lam
> bikes :the 'Sports Anglais" and the "Avant coureur"
> the "allrounder" is shown as a lug-less welded
> frame.(Other welded & bi-lam bikes in the catalog
> were track type)The Avant Coureur is shown with your
> style lugs but has the spur dropout
> .Allrounder&Sports Anglais have your style
> dropouts.I'm told in 50s several models were
> combined/dropped etc.
> Buy the book--Chuck does an excelent job on it--all
> detail of the original catalog is re-produced--no
> fuzzy pics! well worth the small price
> sam lingo,pleasanton tx
>
> Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
> wrote:
> I haven't yet seen photos of the Avant Coureur
> versus the Allrounder in 1949, 1950, or 1951. The
> catalogs in 1952 and 1953 and a list member's bike
> in 1956 all indicate that this was the Allrounder
> pattern from 1952 forward. That would mean the
> touting of the Allrounder in the 1953 catalog as now
> having the original CB bilaminate design would
> actually have been referring to an Allrounder design
> adopted at least one year earlier. One CR member
> mentioned a Chuck Schmidt catalog, I think for 1949,
> that showed the Avant Coureur with the pattern later
> used on the Allrounder. I haven't seen that catalog,
> but since you posted the photos of my bike, perhaps
> Chuck can tell us if its lug pattern matches that of
> the Avant Coureur in a 1949, 1950 or 1951 catalog.
> You're right, this sleuthing about for CB model ID's
> does provide a change of pace from the Masi
> discussions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Jerry Moos
> Hosston, TX
>
>
>
> Peter Naiman wrote:
> Jerry; In correct because the catalogue that I have
> cpies of with the lug pattern similar to yours is
> from
> January of 1952, so your frame if an Avant Coureur
> would haveto be from 1951 or before.
>
> Do you have copies of the earlier catalogue showing
> the lug pattern of your frame indicating it to be a
> Coureur. If so, could you please send it along.
>
> Anybody wanna look up Sherlocke Holmes on this one.
>
> Peter(don't call me Sherlocke) Naiman
>
> P.S. We should include the CR on our discussion.
> Sorry
> to Masi, Cinelli fans, but it would be an
> interesting
> diversion from the usual ongoing blather about
> Masi's
> etc. No insult intended if you both enjoy Masi, but
> there are other bikes beside those and I find Masi,
> Cinelli etc and other that do not change style much
> in
> 30 years to put my three ounces of grey matter to
> sleep.
>
> --- Jerome & Elizabeth Moos
> wrote:
>
> > Peter, it was Toni I believe who faxed me the
> pages
> > from the 1953 catalog a couple of months ago, and
> we
> > both interpreted the text that way at the time,
> and
> > we still could be correct. In fact, I originally
> > figured if my bike was a 1953 or later with that
> lug
> > pattern, it would be an Allrounder, but if it was
> > 1952 or eralier it would be an Avant Coureur. Of
> > course we now know it is 1950. I guess what would
> > be conclusive would be a 1949 or better still 1950
> > catalog clearly showing both the Avant Coureur and
> > the Allrounder of that year. Then we would see if
> > in fact the Allrounder pattern of 1953 and on a
> 1956
> > another list member sent me photos of was used in
> > 1950 on the Avant Coureur. As Toni says, the text
> > in the 1953 catalog does strongly suggest that.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> >
> >
> >
> > Toni Theilmeier wrote:
> > Dear Peter and Jerry,
> > great photos on the wool thingy website, bilam
> > design just like my CB
> > which is 1949 and should be an A/C as there´s this
> > remark in the 1953
> > catalogue which to my mind makes it clear that
> there
> > was a hand-me-down
> > effect after all: "New Allrounder Bi-Laminations.
> > The original C.B.
> > design elaborately feature-cut, bringing the
> > advantages of this
> > revolutionary bi-laminated technique within the
> > reach of all
> > lightweight enthusiasts." (p. 4) It says original
> > design. There we are.
> > The illustrations in the catalogue show the design
> > very clearly indeed.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Toni Theilmeier, Belm, Germany.
> >
> >
> > P.S.: In the case of a sudden disruption of an
> > e-mail conversation with
> > me, please assume that I have given up the medium
> > and contact me in a
> > more traditional way. I am in the trial phase of a
> > last ditch system
> > after some others could not stand my constant
> > abusing them.
> >
>
> --- Jerome & Elizabeth Moos
> wrote:
>
> > Peter, it was Toni I believe who faxed me the
> pages
> > from the 1953 catalog a couple of months ago, and
> we
> > both interpreted the text that way at the time,
> and
> > we still could be correct. In fact, I originally
> > figured if my bike was a 1953 or later with that
> lug
> > pattern, it would be an Allrounder, but if it was
> > 1952 or eralier it would be an Avant Coureur. Of
> > course we now know it is 1950. I guess what would
> > be conclusive would be a 1949 or better still 1950
> > catalog clearly showing both the Avant Coureur and
> > the Allrounder of that year. Then we would see if
> > in fact the Allrounder pattern of 1953 and on a
> 1956
> > another list member sent me photos of was used in
> > 1950 on the Avant Coureur. As Toni says, the text
> > in the 1953 catalog does strongly suggest that.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Jerry Moos
> >
> >
> >
> > Toni Theilmeier wrote:
> > Dear Peter and Jerry,
> > great photos on the wool thingy website, bilam
> > design just like my CB
> > which is 1949 and should be an A/C as there´s this
> > remark in the 1953
> > catalogue which to my mind makes it clear that
> there
> > was a hand-me-down
> > effect after all: "New Allrounder Bi-Laminations.
> > The original C.B.
> > design elaborately feature-cut, bringing the
> > advantages of this
> > revolutionary bi-laminated technique within the
> > reach of all
> > lightweight enthusiasts." (p. 4) It says original
> > design. There we are.
> > The illustrations in the catalogue show the design
> > very clearly indeed.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Toni Theilmeier, Belm, Germany.
> >
> >
> > P.S.: In the case of a sudden disruption of an
> > e-mail conversation with
> > me, please assume that I have given up the medium
> > and contact me in a
> > more traditional way. I am in the trial phase of a
> > last ditch system
> > after some others could not stand my constant
> > abusing them.
> >
>
=== message truncated ===
===== Peter Naiman Alias Hetchinspete4420 North Ardmore AvenueShorewood, WI 53211-1418
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com