snipped from post below: "I was wondering, in more detail, what defines an "art builder" or more specificially, where does the extra 40 to 60 hours or labor go?..."
i think in the context of bicycle frames as noted here, it (time) goes in
to the exterior workmanship rather than the construction and/or design.
there seems to be a resurgance in lug cutting and reworking thanks
to kirk pacenti's new products. after several decades, builder once
again have a canvass to work with.
seperately, heaping it on (pardon my slang) to the "finish work" of
a frame is only part of the equation - and the other part(s) often are
not discussed: does the frame have a rational geometry? is the rider
properly placed above and between the wheels? will the thing roll
downhill at 58mph? is it just a pretty face? the bounderies for
these issues are betwen the builder and the client.
personally, i wish there was more connection between all these
elements just to ensure that the thing "works"; no sense getting
wet and stickey over 200 fleur de lis' if the rear wheel doesn't fit!
if any of you know about art case pianos, you'd expect that the shmaltzy,
garrish looking thing in the parlor sounded exquisite and would last
six lifetimes.
http://www.steinway.com/
---------------------------- the post: Stratton Hammon <strattonh@insightbb.com> writes: Hi All (and Brian),
I was wondering, in more detail, what defines an "art builder" or more specificially, where does the extra 40 to 60 hours or labor go? Are you talking about a bicycle that has hand carved lugs and unusual bends to the tubes? Is it a bicycle that is completely hand mitered?
Which bicycle builders, past and present, have put that much labor into
their frames?
Obviously, Columbine would fall into that category. Who else? What
about Rivendell? Rene Herse? Holdsworth? Rotrax? How much time was
spent producing the frames at the Carlsbad/Masi shop?
http://columbinecycle.com/
On a different subject. I think the reason custom builders in England are cheaper than the US is that there are still thousands of old custom bicycles floating around the place--left over from the glory days of English cycling in the '50s and '60s. Back in those days, there were lots of young people who had fancy racing frames. Those bicycles were transportation as well as a hobby. Then cars became cheap with the introduction of the Morris Minor and Mini, and very quickly, the bicycle market collapsed. The modern, custom builders in England can't charge thousands for fancy lugged steel frames when you can find an older, decent Hetchins, Holdsworth, Claud Butler, etc. for much less. Most of the market today for racing bicycles in England is for the same thing that is selling over here: carbon Treks, aluminum (aluminium) Cannondales, and Ti. Litespeeds. Rivendell could not be located in England if they only sold their top-end, fancy lugged bicycles! They would be too expensive.
Some amazing stuff comes out of Brian's garage.
Later,
Stratton Hammon
Lousiville, Kentucky, USA