i was surprised to get cc-ed on this, so i'll ask, "what <do>
you think the old builders had in mind?"
e-RICHIE®
Richard Sachs Cycles
No.9, North Main Street
Chester, CT 06412 USA
Tel. 860.526.2059
site: http://www.richardsachs.com
pics: http://photos.yahoo.com/
On Thu, 8 Apr 2004 16:14:19 GMT brianbaylis@juno.com writes: Dennis,
Here's a different perspective on "what were we thinking". Since I've never been to Europe to see how the Euro builders do things (even though I did stop in at the Vigorelli in about 1977 and saw nothing, and got the cold shoulder from Alberto) I have always lived by my personal dream. I have from the very beginning strived to build the best bicycles humanly possible and without compromise. I still do this today and have a stronger urge to elevate this and continue at this until I retire from framebuilding. Most of us young framebuilders were under the impression that there was some special magic to framebuilding and that every attention we could give to every single detail of frame design and construction can make a difference in some subtle way, if not in a way that we could feel in the ride of the bike. I still believe, even in the face of constant attempts to convince consumers otherwise, that the true love of the craft and undivided attention to detail is what makes my framebuilding both enjoyable and rewarding. I personally don't and never have given a rats' ass about what anyone else chooses to to as a company or a framebuilder. My passion has never been tainted by realizing that "our hereos" have never really had the same appreciation for quality of construction and extra effort to make a special and personal machine for every customer. If one follows the "business pattern" of most name builders, it is quite clear that after a time and once the reputation has been established, it is completely acceptable, and possibly even neccessary for servival as a "business", to slowly transition into something less that what one originally intended, insofar as maintaining the craft, consistantly producing exceptional bikes (from a craftsmanship standpoint), and remaining passionate about putting in the time on a handmade frame.
Personally, my clock has always been running "backwards", in that my entheusiasiam and wild creative urges began when I built my very first frame, and has increased as time has gone on. Now I seek projects that involve as always, using all of my years of experience in construction methods and materials; but focusing a lot on keeping the craft alive at it's highest level in regards to individualizing each frame as opposed to the typical opposite of standardizing and streamlining the building process to a profitable end. My framebuilding IS NOT a business. It is a personal passion and a way to express what I know and have learned from owning and riding over 100 various bikes. It is an expression of my personal taste in paint and lugs, my desire to make objects that will hopefully outlast me by hundreds of years and be a window into my soul for those in the future that look upon my work, just as we do now at our collections, and seen a man obsessed with the full potential of what a custom built frame can be. My collection of replica frames I believe will also reveal my respect for several particular makes and the attributes that make them unique in some way. I like to have a sense of humor and a free and open attitude towards bikes; thus my interest in building my kinetic sculpture in the form of the tall bike "Air Mail".
So, regarding your question about what the "old framebuilders" are thinking, just look around. Look closely. Look VERY closely, and you will see at least one Amreican framebuilder who has always had an eye on building some of the most refined and experienced machines ever built. No business will ever make such a commitment to the craft. Only an individual, with completely hands on, can control the outcome of every frame to this degree. Volume and profit must never even enter ones' mind if a frame without compromise is to be built. Yes, there will be debate as to what constitutes "compromise" and some will argue that certain things don't matter or make a more desireable frame. Fine with me. My deffinition stands for me and only me and from this point forward I'm finished debating and argueing these points. I know what counts. I know what makes me whole and satisfied. Nothing less than 100% commitment, a Zenlike ignorence of grandure or profit, and a quite confidence in what I stand for is all need. I pass no judgement whatsoever on what others choose to do. The "industry" doesn't exist to me, my heros are still my heros; but my framebuilding is simply an expression of my personal beliefs, some natural talents, and a committment to never compromise, for any reason. But most certainly not for profit. My reward comes in the form of having put in the effort, useing my skills and imagination to create something that I find internally satisfying, and to a degree having others find some pleasure in what I've done. It makes the most sense to me to use my years of expreince to it's fullest degree as I get older, as opposed to the general opposite. I may die in poverty, buy my soul will sing for eternity.
Brian Baylis La Mesa, CA Not interested in counter points of view on this matter any more. I've stated my reality. If yours is different, fine. But don't tell me what my world is supposed to be like or that I'm "mistaken". I know exactly what I'm talking about.
Dennis Young <mail@woodworkingboy.com> wrote: Would you care to elaborate on how workmanship was affected by period as applied to bicycles within our area of interest? Are you saying that the makers of yesteryear had to work faster to survive, therefore the level of "quality" deemed appropriate by the top names was different than today? It seems odd that some bikes by a specific maker within a certain period were well done, and others sloppy. Not being a frame builder, I may be taking liberties here, but if the challenge of good workmanship is not a priority, the work would seem to be pretty boreing. The interest lies in the financial profits? I hope our heroes weren't wealthy and bored. I'd like to get a better idea of the mind set of the old builders.
Dennis Young
Hotaka, Japan
>
> mikey, mikey, mikey...
> this would be a tough thread - because the rose coloured*
> glasses would need thicker and thicker lenses to really
> disect CR era stuff in the vein that u r suggesting. i think
> the derosa that is depicted is/was state of the art re "work-
> manship" back then. otoh, when i stripped the paint from my
> TWO italian 71 masis i was aghast at the level of heavy-handness
> that was evident. i even wrote about it in my tome, Period Correct®.
> i think the issue will become linked to our antenaes (sp?) going
> up much higher now than they were able to go in the 70s. it's
> an across-the-board problem when retrospecting. i like keeping
> things within their respective eras. my opinion of the a singers was
> based in a 2003 sensibility, but i think the derosa and others like
> them were mighty fine for 70s work. the only builder whose frames
> i saw (read: I SAW...) back then whose work and workmanship crossed
> eras was w.b. hurlow.
> e-RICHIE®