This is getting to be an interesting thread!
To answer some of the questions--the issue of anodizing has been discussed ad infinitum on rec.bicycles.tech. The claim is that the hard anodized coating (e.g., on MA40s) cracks under stress, creating the beginnings of cracks that can propagate into the aluminum. This apparently is a known, documented phenomenon for anodized aluminum generally. The early Mavic rims apparently had this problem, and it was significant; I've seen pictures of rims that have failed in this manner. I'm convinced that it is real, but I'm not convinced that rim manufacturers haven't solved the problem, long ago. After all, failures and warranty returns are expensive to both profits and reputation. I suspect that this isn't a problem with thin, cosmetic anodizing, or the uncolored thin anodized layers on many rims.
Having said that, I just built a set of wheels with hard-anodized MA40 rims for a pretty little Giordana I'm restoring. So, I'm not terribly worried about this issue.
I wasn't aware that there were anodized MA2s. All I've seen are polished and maybe lacquered.
Where can one buy the Torellis? Or at least see a catalog picture? I wasn't aware of these.
Steve Maas (cooler this evening in) Long Beach, CA
David Feldman wrote:
> Andrew and all,
> As to anodized rim cracking, I've only seen it
> consistently in two rim models, MA40's and Matrix
> Titans, both along the bottom-of-braking-flat edges
> and both in the numbers of several dozen rims each
> during the 1990's. I have yet to see a cracked MA-2.
> The Torelli Masters sure do look a whole lot like the
> MA-2 shape--maybe Ambrosio did buy the old tooling!
> David Feldman
> Vancouver, WA
> --- Andrew Gillis <apgmaa@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
>
>>CRs:
>>
>>Thanks to David Feldman's preceding CR remarks on
>>the Torelli Master rims.
>>
>>I've used both the Torelli Master (made by Ambrosio
>>in Italy) and the Mavic MA2, so I'll add my $ 2.02
>>to the discussion:
>>
>>1. Wheelbuilding.
>>My recent Torelli rim experience is very limited
>>compared to David Feldman's.
>>
>>I've built up only one pair of Torelli Master rims,
>>six years ago. My wheels had greater variability in
>>the spoke tension (ie, more variability in rim
>>dimensions?) compared to the Mavic MA2s. Over the
>>years (1980 onwards) I found that the Mavic rims
>>always gave the most even spoke tension compared to
>>other rims. However the Torelli rims were still very
>>good, and I'd use them again.
>>
>>No so incidentally, Torelli's website states that
>>the rims are extruded in France and rolled in Italy.
>>This is very interesting to me...did Mavic sell off
>>their old MA2 extruding machinery??? Maybe their
>>rims have improved since I used them last. Who
>>knows?
>>
>>2. Anodizing.
>>The Masters were/are available in both hard gray
>>(nearly black) and soft (clear) silver anodizing.
>>
>>The Mavic MA2 was available as non anodized (most
>>familar here in the USA), clear silver anodized (MA2
>>"argent") and hard gray anodized (MA40, also
>>commonly distributed). I also have in my possession
>>(as I write this) one odd MA2 "SBP" which has a hard
>>silver anodizing, similar to the MA40 but apparently
>>the anodizing wasn't dyed dark gray.
>>
>>The Argent model wasn't imported into the USA (to my
>>knowledge, I've never seen it here) but I purchased
>>a couple pairs a few years ago from UK mail order.
>>One of these pairs is on my Richard Sachs (Record 9
>>Ergo) and is not showing any trace of spoke hole
>>cracking after 5(?) years of use.
>>
>>I don't know the reliability of Jobst Brandt's
>>remarks against anodized rims. I do know that all of
>>the modern extra-light and ultra-light handelbars
>>are hard anodized to supposedly reduce the risk of
>>surface imperfections create a stress crack which
>>could propagate into the material.
>>
>>I prefer the "clear silver" anodized rims for the
>>corrosion resistance, yet the sidewalls are not too
>>hard and wear down quickly for better braking. The
>>hard anodized rims (MA40, SBP) take a long time to
>>wear in.
>>
>>3. Rim Construction (Spoke holes/Ferrules).
>>Both the Master and the MA2 use the same double
>>ferruled eyelet construction. I've had the Master
>>eyelets rust out pretty quickly (when washed with
>>water) so I'd stick to wiping the rims down with
>>Pledge wax and avoid the risk of corrosion.
>>
>>Incidentally, I also prefer to use plastic rim tape
>>instead of cotton. If the wheels get really wet from
>>a rainy ride ("it never rains in Southern
>>California!") then I'll remove the tires and the
>>rims strips to let the rims dry out from both sides.
>>
>>4. Weight.
>>I'd guess that the weights of the two rims are
>>nearly the same. As far as I know, the Torelli rim
>>is the only classic box clincher left on the market,
>>so there's not really much of a choice in the
>>matter.
>>
>>5. Recommendation:
>>The differences between old MA2s and newer Torelli
>>Master rims are pretty minor. Buy the Torelli rims
>>and keep the manufacturer's product line open.
>>
>>Be happy!
>>
>>Andrew Gillis (heading towards 97 F in Long Beach,
>>CA today!)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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