RE: [CR]{CR} KOF lugged steel frames

(Example: Framebuilders:Masi)

From: "F.W. Faro" <faro@cistron.nl>
To: "'Doug Fattic'" <fatticbicycles@qtm.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: RE: [CR]{CR} KOF lugged steel frames
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:50:27 +0200
Organization: Faro management & advies
In-Reply-To: <BF22181E.4C6%fatticbicycles@qtm.net>


Brian, Doug,

I certainly appreciate both your input: the builder's point of view; you two have very much the same approach. And it was educating: I 'assumed' fillet brazing was more work, cause the pricing was always higher, whenever I saw it offered. Anyway, I think we agree, craftsmanship is what counts. And attention to detail, like filing down lugs, ornate decoration of lugs, etc. American builders take that a step further than many European, and certainly Dutch builders. A cultural difference, surely. A nice anecdote: three years ago I had the opportunity to ride with the Rabo Bank team (together with other Volvo owners and bank clients). When riding alongside Karsten Kroon for a while, he remarked about my bike, the Dave Lloyd 753 OS. 'What a beautiful bike, what is it, titanium or aluminium?' It appeared he had never ridden a steel bike in his life. No chance of comparing my ride with his C50!

The reason I pursued the KOF argument, was not because I, myself, think this definition is very important (I don't care about definitions all that much). No, although my bikes are very grown-up when it comes to fast cornering, handling a dangerous descent etcetera, they acted like children when they heard about the KOF label. I distinctly heard the three Rossin bikes (83 and 88, lugs not filed down) smirking, giggling, at the two Dave Lloyds. I could swear they were murmuring (in Italian) 'you may be the boss's favourites, but we are KOF!, he, he ,he!').

OK, enough of this, back to building up the Scandium tin can. Doug, I'd appreciate it if you mailed the pics you took!

Freek (ride when it's dry, oh, it's raining again) Faro Rotterdam Netherlands

-----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] Namens Doug Fattic Verzonden: vrijdag 12 augustus 2005 15:11 Aan: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Onderwerp: [CR]{CR} KOF lugged steel frames

Dear Freek,

Before disagreeing with any comments you might have written, I'll like to tell all what a nice time I had at your place in Holland a week ago. I enjoyed the tour of your bicycles in the garage (with your Volvo having to properly be parked outside). Thanks also for the snacks and walk to the local bike shop where dozens of transportation style bicycles are for sale. The pictures of your beautiful neighborhood are now downloaded into my computer. Most of all you and Toni were just good company for conversation.

Now having said that, I hope you don't mind my observation that a lugged frame requires more craftsmanship - out of me anyway - than a fillet brazed one. Both have their place and purpose. However prepping a lug before assembly and filing it thinner afterward is more labor intensive the way I do it. Also silver brazing tubes together with lugs is a lower temperature process (and therefore theoretically less damaging) than brass fillets. I know you are about to remind me that your Dave Lloyd was silver fillet brazed so that point may be lost. The importance of lugs also has to do with aesthetics. There are times (but not every time) when I just prefer the look. That reminds me how astonished I was at your saddle, handlebar height differential. You replied that it was a matter of aesthetics - sometimes you have to suffer a little so things look right. Your argument works for me about why do the extra effort to make a frame with lugs.

Doug "lugs are my first choice but not my only choice" Fattic Niles, Michigan

From: "F.W. Faro" <faro@cistron.nl> Subject: RE: [CR]Re-newed interest in the classic steel frame and otherramblin Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:56:00 +0200

All,

Having just returned from a short ride on my only-just-on-topic Rossin Record (83), I find the KOF debate flooding my inbox. Apart from observations on ride quality between the different steel bikes I own, I would like to ask this. What's the importance of lugs, either in KOF definition, or older bikes? It seems to me that fillet brazing requires probably more craftsmanship. And craftsmanship is what it's all about? Yes?

Freek 'proud owner of two fillet brazed, custom built, steel, bikes' Faro Rotterdam Netherlands

PS: now I have to find some time to finish building up the Scandium frame that's been lying around here. Will it ride better/same/worse as my beloved Dave Lloyd???

_______________________________________________ Subscribe/unsubscribe or retrieve password at: http://www.phred.org/mailman/listinfo/framebuilders Archives: http://www.phred.org/pipermail/framebuilders/ Archive Search: http://search.bikelist.org/

------ End of Forwarded Message