Jerry, this has nothing to do w/ honesty...rude behavior is rude behavior.....enlightened people recognize a character fault and work on it...they don't celebrate it with buttons to excuse borish behavior...better a button states, "pardon my rudeness,but i'm workin' on it"...this all started because peter screwed up his frame for sale description and asked bg to kindly correct him off list next time....how does bg get off w/ the "shop lied" bit...he doesn't know that! does bruce know alot???...i would think so.....more than peter???....well that is clearly obvious..but..in regards to that frame in that moment in time!... the facts are great to have, especially if peter wants to accurately discuss, describe, and otherwise post anything for sale around this site...it's the extra stuff that is not helpful....and w/ all this buzz back and forth over this it's curious bruce doesn't step in and say, hey, lets put it to rest... maybe he enjoys all the fawning over him by his fans. there are thousands and thousands of great frames by knowns and unknowns....good frame builders before bruce, during bruce, and after bruce....now eddy merckx, he was one in a million....an extremely shy, humble and pious man.... the really great ones are always the humble ones....charles(almost ready to let this go)flaherty in cooling off quickly baltimore maryland usa