Ted et al,
Not trying to be a theorist here but this is what see in my findings:
As far as 50's or 60's Campagnolo parts with "O"-rings I can only think of the first generation headset, as well as the first (1956-57) generation pedal axles*, the 1958 second generation pedals (which had the same spindles as the 56-57 type less the reinforced cage,) and the 1959-early 60's pedals that had the flares at the wrench flat bases of the spindles (to protect crank from slippage of a pedal wrench which could scratch the crank.)
I just checked all of my Campagnolo catalogs and cannot find any BB cups that used rubber seals aside from the 90's O-T ATB ones.
As far as 74 mm bottom bracket spindles go, I thought only old Cinelli frames had the 74mm shell? Were there any other frames that used the 74mm shell?
*There is a Rebour drawing of the 1956 pedals with the reinforced cage on page 194 of Mr. Noguchi's "The Data Book" (Van Der Plas Publications; 1998.)
Ted Baer
Palo Alto, CA
> I seem to remember that Campag had rubber seal
> cups bac in the shadowy
> past.
> One of the guys wrote me and said the rubber seals
> were on later mountain
> bike groups.
> I remember those, but I.m thinking of '60's.
> Might be I confuse them with some of the Japanese
> ones.
> If so , my apologies for faulty memory.
> I recall that the stuff as trickier to install as
> one had to lube and slide
> the axle back and forth to not nseat the seal .
> It took a different "feel" to adjust the cups
> properly, but one learned
> quickly.
> Back in the late '50's and through into the "70's,
> we mixed and matched many
> spindle and cups untill we got the mating we needed
> for chainline and fit.
> Not everything was available all the time so we made
> do.
> Shops were around longer and the mechanics had
> better experience by and
> large, so we'd see some clever stuff and did some
> ourselves, too.
> The concern was to get the people out riding, The
> 101%
> collecting/restoration was not so critical yet.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ternst" <ternst1@cox.net>
> To: "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>;
> "Tory Werne"
> <twerne@bellsouth.net>; "'Ted E. Baer'"
> <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net>;
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 10:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR]Campagnolo BB cups--which ones to
> use?
>
> > Some of the earlier Italian Bikes had 74 BB's and
> I sold an axle like that
> > to a fellow CR member.
> > Then it got standardized to 70, where we are
> today.
> > Some of the older track frames were 65.
> > I think the Campy thin wall cups came first, then
> for a short time the
> > rubber seal, and then the directional thread which
> is to keep foreign
> > matter out of the bearings, while bike is pedaled
> forward.
> > No warranty if you ride backwards.
> > The rubber seals were tricky to work with, which
> would explain their short
> > life.
> > Ted Ernst
> > Palos Verdes Estates
> > CA USA
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Fred Rafael Rednor" <fred_rednor@yahoo.com>
> > To: "Tory Werne" <twerne@bellsouth.net>; "'Ted E.
> Baer'"
> > <wickedsky@sbcglobal.net>;
> <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> > Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:12 AM
> > Subject: RE: [CR]Campagnolo BB cups--which ones to
> use?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> --- Tory Werne <twerne@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ted Baer wrote :
> >>>
> >>> <cut>
> >>> I rooted through my old spindles and found a
> decent
> >>> Campagnolo Record spindle engraved "70-SS."
> >>> <cut>
> >>> -------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Ted :
> >>> Based on NOS Campagnolo Italian BB's I've
> purchased or
> >>> measured,
> >>> I have also seen 70-SS without additional
> markings.
> >>> To be sure of the application, measure the total
> length of
> >>> the spindle.
> >>>
> >>> Thick Cup
> >>> 113mm ... pre 1978 NR Road Double
> >>> 115.5mm ... post 1977 NR Road Double
> >>>
> >>> Thin Cup
> >>> 118mm ... pre 1978 NR Road Triple
> >>> 124mm ... post 1977 NR Road Triple
> >>>
> >>> It it's another number, sorry, I can't confirm
> it.
> >>>
> >>> Tory Werne
> >>> Woodstock, Georgia USA
> >>
> >> Those numbers sound correct. The lenghts you
> might be missing
> >> from your list are the symetrical spindles used
> for track
> >> cranksets or later road cranksets such as Chorus
> and Athena.
> >> Those will be 109.5 to 111 millimeters long.
> >>
> >> What puzzles me now is the 74mm BB that Ted Ernst
> mentioned.
> >> I've never seen one. Did they really use
> thin-wall cups? I
> >> could see those having thick-wall cups, in which
> case they
> >> could use the same spindle as the 70mm
> thick-wall. Or perhaps
> >> it's time to start re-measuring everything in my
> BB spindle
> >> collection...
> >> Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)
> >>
> >>
> >>
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