Does the fact that the Rivendell lugs are investment castings have anything to do with the way they look? Remeber that the Ephrgraves and Hurlowes to which the Rivs are being compared were pressed and/or stampings which were then embellished with files and hacksaws. My impression is that the Riv lugs pop out of the molds in a substantially finished form as far as their decorative bits go. I suspect that the appearance of the G. Peterson/Issac lugs have as much curlicue-ness as can be produced with an investment casting, hence the thick base of the pointy parts and the inability to put in many windows and cut outs. So perhaps the unpleasing (to some) style of the Rivendells as compared to the "masterpieces" of the 30's-60's has something to do with the limits of the technology Rivendell uses. Given what Curt has displayed on his Pacenti-carved-blanks lugged bikes, he can fancy em up with the best of them, but what would the cost be if he spent another 80 hours per frame going wild with the file?
Tom Adams, Shrewsbury NJ
chasds@mindspring.com wrote: Curt wrote:
-----Original Message-----
>From: Curt Goodrich
>Sent: Mar 20, 2006 12:59 PM
>To: "C. Andrews" , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]re: riv lugs
>
>The head tube extension can be removed. It's just that nobody asks for
>it. Personally I like both the original lugs and the current ones. The
>current Rivendell lugs were designed by Tim Isaac with Grant's input. Tim
>has designed more lugs than anyone, at least in the U.S. It's fine with me
>if people like or dislike them. Wouldn't it be boring if we all liked or
>disliked the same thing?
>
>Curt Goodrich
>Minneapolis, MN
>
*********
(Some have suggested we've beaten this to death. I feel differently. Seems to me discussions like this help us all do some thinking about what's pretty and what isn't. And why. And that's a valuable thing.)
I'm not wild about the extension, and I think it does distort the appearence of the head-lugs, but the reasons for it are clear. I'd rather have a slightly bigger frame instead, but that's just me.
As for the Riv lugs themselves, the main gripe I have with them is that the proportions of various curved tangs are not very pleasing, and the curves themselves have a number of knuckles in them (that is, the curves are not smooth, they have flat spots) that I find exceedingly displeasing. The total effect, for me, is that the lugs appear "sag" on the tubes, instead of looking more flighty, which is how I prefer fancy lugs to look, a-la Hurlow, Condor, Ephgrave and Carpenter, or even Nervex, among others.
Finally, they do look like they were designed by committee, with obvious references to italian, french, and english styles tacked onto each other in what seems a dissonant, even ludicrous, way.
The workmanship on every Riv custom I've seen, has always been immaculate, so that's never been my problem.
... it's these discussions that reveal what is beautiful about a lug, any lug. I agree that it would be boring if we all liked the same things. The signature Rene Herse lug, the early Colnago Super lug, the Ephgrave lugs, these are all *very* different lugs, but they are all beautiful in their professional-design-sort-of-way.
But...and it's a big but...there are many people who like things that are plain ugly by any reasonable standard. That doesn't stop people from liking them of course, but it does suggest that they have bad taste. And all I mean by that is that taste is not created equal, whatever anyone may say.
Is my taste better than anyone else's? Is yours? (not Curt's in particular, rather, all of us in general) Maybe. Maybe not. Depends on who wants to know..
Charles Andrews SoCal
-----Original Message-----
>From: Curt Goodrich
>Sent: Mar 20, 2006 12:59 PM
>To: "C. Andrews" , classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
>Subject: Re: [CR]re: riv lugs
>
>The head tube extension can be removed. It's just that nobody asks for
>it. Personally I like both the original lugs and the current ones. The
>current Rivendell lugs were designed by Tim Isaac with Grant's input. Tim
>has designed more lugs than anyone, at least in the U.S. It's fine with me
>if people like or dislike them. Wouldn't it be boring if we all liked or
>disliked the same thing?
>
>Curt Goodrich
>Minneapolis, MN
>
_______________________________________________
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
PhotoMail - it's free and works with Yahoo! Mail.