I heartily second everything Harvey has written and would like to add: When riding your shoes without cleats the innertube,or tape protection is good if you are concerned about a mark on the shoe toe box. BUT: Remember to move the cleat forward just a little to allow for toe clearance so as not to bruise toe when stepping hard into your stroke. This will also allow for the toe clip to clear the toe box on top. One has to compensate for the thickness of the cleat to be nailed on. If this presents a minute feel problem for your ball of foot then a small spacer between the clip and pedal will compensate instead of moving the cleat. I usually only put in two nails and then hand fit the shoe in the pedal to check for fit. Never did like to pry off a new fully nailed cleat. Still got my iron foot, it's only about 45 years old. Ted Ernst Palos Verdes Estates, CA
<classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 6:07 PM Subject: Re: [CR] shoes for clips/straps & TA ref 40 cleats
>I was rather struck to come home and find that the email fingers were
>pointing at me as an "expert" on nailed-on cleats. Without being able to
>summarize all the traffic, let me offer a few observations:
>
> 1) If an expert is someone who has done it several times, been
> photographed doing it, and has a Genuwine Shoemaker's Anvil, then I
> qualify. The anvil was $5 at a garage sale or something, but it makes it
> all look official. But, I need a source of better nails than the
> big-headed carpet tacks I used most recently (for Paul Raley). The nails
> have to be soft enough to turn under when they hit the steel anvil. So, I
> guess I've learned much of what can be learned w/o instruction.
>
> 2) Whoever recommended riding new shoes w/o cleats first is right, as far
> as I'm concerned. To fit cleats to new shoes, what I advise it to put a
> doubleslice of inner tube or whatever against the inside (shoe side) of
> the toe clip. This will (a) protect the shoe from scuffing, and (b) push
> the shoe back just a bit, so the cleat won't push the shoe into the clip
> (Duh). Ride with the shoes and no cleats until you have a good wear line.
> That usually takes me one ride.
>
> 3) Before nailing, think real hard about the side-to-side position, not
> just fore-and-aft and angle. I have wide feet (EE), so I tend to mount
> cleats near the inner edge of the pedal, so my feet can extend over the
> outer edge of the pedal.
>
> 4) Joe B-Z points out that you want the angle right, so you don't mess up
> your knees. It is also important that you get it right so your heel
> doesn't kiss the crank on each rotation (too much toe-out). Being a
> cautious type, I tend to drive home one nail pretty well, then check the
> angle against the crank and the wear line, then do the rest of them.
>
> 4) I don't think I've ever used or set up TA or other leather cleats. My
> favorites when I can get them are still the aluminum TA Jacque Anquetil
> long (aluminum, with copper rivets), but I've used plastic, too. I don't
> have a history of knee problems, though they twinge a bit nowadays. I
> blame it on age and too much climbing on my fixed gear, but that may be
> wishful thinking. Huh?
>
> 5) I won't be at Trexlertown this Spring, but happy to bring the anvil,
> hammer and needlenose pliers to install YOUR cleats on YOUR shoes at
> Cirque, if anyone asks. And if I can find nails I like better. No charge,
> ever. All I ask is a triplicate release of liability from any damages...
> :-) Ah, you get to choose whether you want to hold the shoe on the anvil,
> or the nail while I hammer... just joking.
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va.
>
> harvey sachs
> mcLean va.
>>> > I'm as nostalgic as anyone but nail on, non-adjustable
>>
>> cleats are for the
>> birds in my opinion. They lead to not getting the angle
>> right which leads
>> to knee problems. I can't remember how many times I went
>> through the
>> establish a line and try and get some cobbler to get them on
>> right routine.
>> I'm sure Harvey is more skilled, but getting them
>> ergonomically correct is a
>> very tricky business that goes beyond even getting the cleats
>> on that line.
>
>>> >
>>> > Maybe the leather ones are more forgiving, but adjustable
>>
>> cleats and
>> Fit-Kit fitting were two innovations I grabbed and never
>> looked back.
>
>>> >
>>> > I also like the dear departed Sidis with just the ribbed
>>
>> soles for a
>> touring type shoe.
>
>>> >
>>> > Joe Bender-Zanoni
>>> > Great Notch, Nj