not all 'stainless' is, my 1947? Raleigh Lenton Clubman retains it's origina l front wheel which has 'stainless' spokes only some have 'rusted' a bit,the y are all the same and have an R on each head ,and are all very slightly mag netic ,but ARE stainless..steve chambers chesterfield england
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Tue, 30 May 2006 01:34:34 -0700 Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 41, Issue 112
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Pardon but about Pergo's Masi - SHHHH!-IT AINT HIS! (Mike Schmidt) 2. Re: Yet more on HURET drop out adjustors (Chuck Schmidt) 3. Re: When did stainless spokes appear? (Jan Heine) 4. Re: Panasonic Ti - was: Forwarded query from Larry Black. (Eric Elman) 5. Re: Pardon but about Pergo's Masi - SHHHH!-IT AINT HIS! 6. Re: first stainless spokes (Jan Heine) 7. Cirque (Kendra Coatney) 8. re: When did stainless spokes appear? (Harvey M Sachs) 9. 27" wheels for sale (Harvey M Sachs) 10. Wanted: Campy SR rear derailleur (Harvey M Sachs) 11. Looking for Transfers for a Don Farrell Track Bike (Sheldon Family) 12. Whitcomb info. (nelson miller) 13. Re: Looking for Transfers for a Don Farrell Track Bike (Dan Kehew) 14. E-bay outing- if only it were my size. 15. WTT: super champ 36o tubs for clinchers (movin to nyc!) (dan polito) 16. Stronglight BB Spindle Taper ? (r cielec) 17. RE: Re: Gillott with 1 1/8th in top tube (Mark Bulgier) 18. Stainless steel spokes
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:05:50 -0400 From: "Mike Schmidt" <mdschmidt@patmedia.net> To: <LouDeeter@aol.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Pardon but about Pergo's Masi - SHHHH!-IT AINT HIS! Message-ID: <007001c6836c$0c2fbe80$86fc9518@vaio> References: <249.b278ce4.31acc862@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 1
That Masi on EBAY does not belong to Pergolizzi. We were having a laugh about that at Turn 3 while watching the tour de Somerville.
Mike Schmidt
Stirling, NJ
>
> jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net writes:
>
> If someone were obsessive about constantly adjusting the stops, he would
> eventually wind up with the wheel at the front of the DOs.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
_http://ebay.com/<blah>
QQ
> itemZ7245044873QQcategoryZ98084QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem_
>
(http://ebay.com/<blah>
QQitemZ7245044873QQcategory
> Z98084QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
>
>
> This Masi, see above ebay link, (I had to work Masi into this discussion)
> belongs to Gianni Pergolizzi. Looking at adjustor screw and the rear
axle, I
> can conclude that 1) if the Campagnolo dropout is similar then adjusting
> forward to the limit will not result with the wheel in front of the DO and
2) that
> Gianni is obsessive. Lou Deeter, Orlando FL
>
>
> _______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:09:13 -0700 From: Chuck Schmidt <chuckschmidt@earthlink.net> To: CLASSIC RENDEZVOUS <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Yet more on HURET drop out adjustors Message-ID: <3A0745CB-BD4F-4887-9C4B-1427ADD64F12@earthlink.net> In-Reply-To: <20060529213829.27574.qmail@web82202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20060529213829.27574.qmail@web82202.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v733) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 2
Jerome & Elizabeth Moos wrote:
> Unless I have the Campys installed backward as well, the Campy
> screw head is inside the DO, and can only be turned with a
> screwdriver after removing the wheel. The back end of the screw,
> outside the DO, has a domed cap threaded onto it. It's true, you
> can turn the cap to adjust the screw, but ONLY if you wish the move
> the wheel axle FORWARD on that side. If you turn the cap the other
> way it will thread off the screw rather than moving the screw
> backward.
>
> So the method you propose works only if you always adjust the stops
> by moving one side forward. If someone were obsessive about
> constantly adjusting the stops, he would eventually wind up with
> the wheel at the front of the DOs. Besides, there are times when
> one may need to move the stops backward, such as when changing the
> size of FW or chainring.
>
> All details aside, a design which places a screw head such that one
> must remove a component to access it is less logical than a design
> that actually makes a screw head accessible to a screwdriver. The
> only reason to think otherwise if is if one has a "Campy is always
> right" mindset. I must confess I've myself been a bit infected
> with this mindset, as I initially installed the Huret adjustors in
> the incorrect and illogical manner for no other reason than that
> that was how Campy did it.
The knurled cap works as intended (turning the screw in both directions) when the cap is attached to the screw as intended... which would be tight. I have many bikes with these knurled cap adjustor screws and have NEVER had one unscrew. Conclusion: you failed to install yours correctly?
You write, "The only reason to think otherwise if is if one has a "Campy is always right" mindset." While it is true that I think otherwise than you, it would not be because I have a "Campy is always right" mindset. I simply judge things on their own merit. If they work as intended they are good. When someone designs something that you can adjust without the use of tool, in my world this is good.
Chuck Schmidt South Pasadena, Southern California
. ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:09:44 -0700 From: Jan Heine <heine93@earthlink.net> To: "Tom Sanders" <tsan7759142@sbcglobal.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]When did stainless spokes appear? Message-ID: <a05210624c0a120691151@[192.168.1.33]> In-Reply-To: <003201c68368$c439af30$3f4cff44@ts> References: <003201c68368$c439af30$3f4cff44@ts> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 3
Tom,
Robergel Trois Etoiles "rigoreusement inoxydables" spokes were advertised as early as February 1939 in that month's Le Cycliste. They were described as "new" then.
The whole-page ad proclaims: "Guaranteed for 10 years, and even longer, they will not rust." They even say they'll give you a free spokes, which you can put in your garden, dump in the ocean, file it to remove any surface finish, and see for yourself!
Certainly, by 1968, stainless spokes were available. Stella is another brand that comes to mind.
Jan Heine Editor/Publisher Vintage Bicycle Quarterly c/o Il Vecchio Bicycles 140 Lakeside Ave, Ste. C Seattle WA 98122 http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
At 5:42 PM -0400 5/29/06, Tom Sanders wrote:
>I just got a lovely set of 27" wheels (from a very nice CR Lister) that hav
e
>stainless spokes. They are dated '68. Were stainless spokes used that
>early?
>Tom Sanders
>Lansing, Mi
>
>
-- ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:30:43 -0400 From: "Eric Elman" <tr4play@cox.net> To: <oroboyz@aol.com>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Panasonic Ti - was: Forwarded query from Larry Black. Message-ID: <000501c6836f$85c66ca0$6d35c048@ownerejujeippx> References: <20060529195509.KFWX24467.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld. com> <8C8517FAAEF0515-CD8-D9B@FWM-D33.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain;format=flowed;charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4
Larry/Dale,
If I recall correctly, Jamie Swan was up at Copake this spring with an early
Ti Panasonic of which he removed the clear and polished the frame. It looked nice. I have no idea how he went about it but hopefully this lead will point you in a productive direction.
Eric Elman back home after being away for the Menorial Day Holiday Somers, CT USA
> << From: "larry black" <bikelarry@gmail.com>
>
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 16:38:44 -0400
>
> Subject: polishing non steel metals?
>
> I have a very old Titanium frame from Japan, late 70's, Panasonic.
>
> While I'm usually a love-em-and leave-em-alone sort, I want to apply some
> original style decals I have and then either clear or leave it.
>
> There's old clear on there that I would like to remove and then polish the
> frame. Home grown or professional here?
>
> Anyone in screenshot do this or know anyone that does?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> --
> Larry Black
> Mt Airy Md. >>
>
>
>
> Dale Brown
> Greensboro, NC USA
> _______________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:27:37 EDT From: LouDeeter@aol.com To: mdschmidt@patmedia.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Pardon but about Pergo's Masi - SHHHH!-IT AINT HIS! Message-ID: <473.1f812b7.31accf59@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
mdschmidt@patmedia.net writes:
That Masi on EBAY does not belong to Pergolizzi.
Aha, I jumped to a conclusion! Pergo mentioned he had listed a Campagnolo triple crankset on ebay with a friend and when viewing the other items offered, looked to me like he had also listed a Masi. Had I looked at the rest of the offerings, I could have deduced that my conclusion was wrong. Imagine
that. Only the third time that has ever happened to me! Darn. ;) But, since it didn't belong to Pergo, I don't want it anymore. Lou Deeter, Orla ndo FL
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:37:41 -0700 From: Jan Heine <heine93@earthlink.net> To: "P.C. Kohler" <kohl57@starpower.net> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: first stainless spokes Message-ID: <a05210627c0a127812b6a@[192.168.1.33]> In-Reply-To: <001101c6836e$8111dab0$5e390fd8@D36MSL71> References: <001101c6836e$8111dab0$5e390fd8@D36MSL71> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6
Hi Peter,
Thanks for your note. I never intended to say that Robergel were the first, but they are the first datapoint I have. So I say "Robergel in 1939" and you push it back further by saying "Raleigh in 1938." Any others?
One question is have is how "stainless" these spokes really were. I have heard some French grousing that the early stainless spokes were anything but...
I'll post the reply to the CR list, as it is of interest to all.
Jan Heine Editor/Publisher Vintage Bicycle Quarterly c/o Il Vecchio Bicycles 140 Lakeside Ave, Ste. C Seattle WA 98122 http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
At 6:23 PM -0400 5/29/06, P.C. Kohler wrote:
>Hi Jan
>
>I saw your CR List posting... ss spokes are slightly older than
>1939... Raleigh had them starung the 1938 model year as standard on
>most of their models. Prior to that, c. 1935, they introduced
>chromium plated spokes. Of course, maybe someone else beat Raleigh
>but you know I'd never admit to that.
>
>Kind rgds
>
>Peter
--
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 15:44:42 -0700 From: "Kendra Coatney" <masi3vgirl@gmail.com> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Cirque Message-ID: <f6a5a5da0605291544i30f1ecb3x2af5af326c8afd26@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 7
I am so sad that I cannot make it to the Cirque. Ever since I got hit by that stupid van (on my 'on topic' Masi) I have been struggling. I will start a savings account now for next year's Cirque. I was looking forward to meeting all the guys/gals that are helping me through my newbie phase (which I'm sure will last for a couple more years). Hope you all have fun and I can't wait to see all the pictures!
-- Kendra Coatney Seattle, Washington, USA ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:09:09 -0400 From: Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net> To: tsan7759142@sbcglobal.net, Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: re: [CR]When did stainless spokes appear? Message-ID: <447B7F15.3020504@cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: sachshm@cox.net Message: 8
Tom Sanders asks:
I just got a lovely set of 27" wheels (from a very nice CR Lister) that have stainless spokes. They are dated '68. Were stainless spokes used that early? +++++++++++++++++ CycloPedia carried the stainless version of the Robergels as far back as the
early to mid-60s, as I recall. They (and the slightly later Stellas) had a reputation for brittleness; I don't remember being able to afford either.
harvey sachs mcLean VA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:18:04 -0400 From: Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]27" wheels for sale Message-ID: <447B812C.7000101@cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: sachshm@cox.net Message: 9
First series DuraAce low-flange hubs (rear spacing = 120 mm OLN), Weinmann "Concave" rims, 3-cross double-butted spokes (I don't recognize brand stamp on head), Presta valve drilling, Performance HP tires. $90 the pair, delivered to Cirque or picked up in suburban VA. Pix available. There is some bike for which these are perfect, but I don't have such a bike now, and don't expect to. Would consider interesting trades, w or w/o cash differential.
thanks! harvey sachs mcLean va ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:20:57 -0400 From: Harvey M Sachs <sachshm@cox.net> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Wanted: Campy SR rear derailleur Message-ID: <447B81D9.8060800@cox.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: sachshm@cox.net Message: 10
Several years ago, I sold one of these puppies, since I never had a bike with one. A modest amount of remorse has set in, and I'd trade a spare NR + modest amount of cash or ?? for a SR good enough for display, that is, worn pivots ok but shouldn't be completely trashed cosmetics. I have the rest of the series, and it seems silly not to complete it. I have several NRs with different patent dates.
thanks! harvey sachs mcLean va. ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 19:33:54 -0400 From: "Sheldon Family" <Sheldon_Family@verizon.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Looking for Transfers for a Don Farrell Track Bike Message-ID: <008e01c68378$5a0a0c80$2f01a8c0@Caitlin> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 11
On 31 December, 1971, I purchased a made to order track frameset from Don Farrell Cycles in Hemel Hemstead UK. It cost ?35 complete with Campagnolo headset, bottom bracket and seatpost pinch bolt. I used it for track and roller racing for many years. The past few years I have been riding it on the road. It was built with team racing geometry and is a very sweet handling bike.
In the early 80's, I was persuaded to have it repainted in my racing club colors. The time has come to refinish it again. To do the job properly this time I need a set of period correct "Don Farrell" transfers. The original finish included block lettering on the downtube and small script lettering on the top tube as well as transfer crests on both the head and seat tubes.
Can anybody supply a set of transfers in white and a head tube badge or photos that could be used to reproduce a set of transfers?
Ray Sheldon
Great Falls, VA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 17:49:46 -0700 From: "nelson miller" <nelsmiller@msn.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Whitcomb info. Message-ID: <BAY116-F71254D75EA21B7046BDBCC2920@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 12
Group--
I have a piece of personal information regarding dealing with the folks at Whitcomb. Several years ago, I called them from Bath, England, and asked ab out a set of decals/transfers--- sent the the money-- about £20, as I remem ber, and they never showed up. I called them the following year, and got the same story---- "we'll send the right out", and same results--- nothing. Yet anot her call, and I was told that I would have to speak with some special person, wh o conveniently was never there on subsequent phone calls.
Another stateside cycle enthusiast has contacted me with the same problem, a nd wondered if I could help him ---he had sent the money, received nothing.
I do not believe that this list is especially the vehicle to diss anybody, b ut I do not feel the least bit bad about relaying two bad experiences, and recommending that one should be very careful and think at least twice before
sending them any money.
Cheers---
Nelson Miller --- Seattle, WA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 18:01:54 -0700
From: "Dan Kehew" <dan.kehew@gmail.com>
To: "Sheldon Family" <Sheldon_Family@verizon.net>
Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
Subject: Re: [CR]Looking for Transfers for a Don Farrell Track Bike
Message-ID: <8c14bd140605291801s34884d12ke98cb101e89aff1d@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <008e01c68378$5a0a0c80$2f01a8c0@Caitlin>
References: <008e01c68378$5a0a0c80$2f01a8c0@Caitlin>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Precedence: list
Message: 13
> ...To do the job
> properly this time I need a set of period correct "Don Farrell"
> transfers. The original finish included block lettering on the downtube
> and small script lettering on the top tube as well as transfer crests
> on both the head and seat tubes.
>
> Can anybody supply a set of transfers in white and a head tube badge or
> photos that could be used to reproduce a set of transfers?
If there are more original sets than one out there, may I piggyback on the request?
On the other hand, I've checked with Nick at Lloyds' -- he can do reproductions of these and has a model for the work. Ray, I would be willing to add at least two more sets to your request for repros if you go that route. No hurry for me, though -- Brian Baylis has the frameset and I only just snuck it into his workshop as he shut down the repaint work. Brian well knows I'll let him leave it low on the priority list for as long as he cares to!
-- Dan Kehew, Davis CA ------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 21:09:17 EDT From: TODDCIRELLI@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]E-bay outing- if only it were my size. Message-ID: <472.1fb545b.31acf53d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 14
Good deal for someone taller than 5'8"-
_http://ebay.com/<blah> _W 0QQitemZ7245461271QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem_ (http://ebay.com/<blah> _W0QQit emZ7245461271QQcategoryZ98084QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Todd Cirelli Mechanicsburg. PA
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 23:11:19 -0400 From: "dan polito" <thepandle@hotmail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]WTT: super champ 36o tubs for clinchers (movin to nyc!) Message-ID: <BAY111-F183654EF9DDF3A56A8540AA4920@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 15
to the list-
i have a pair of super champion arc en ciel 36 hole tubulars in excellent condition. no glue residue, and they appear to have never been laced. i want to trade for a nice pair of 36 hole clincher rims. i am moving to brooklyn and my daily rider has tubulars; i don't want to stitch and patch every day.
they do not have to be super champion, though that would be nice. again, high quality 36 hole.
thanks dan polito bloomington, indiana
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 20:25:53 -0700 (PDT) From: r cielec <teaat4p@yahoo.com> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Stronglight BB Spindle Taper ? Message-ID: <20060530032553.63508.qmail@web52008.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 16
Ahoy !
Re: OEM installation - Stronglight BB & Type 93 Crank; 1974 Raleigh Super Course Mk II
Normally, I would have assumed the spindle taper was common and appropriat e for just about every crank under the sun with exception, perhaps of JIS. Yet, every time I poke this Stronglight bb it makes unique noises, not lik e any other bb I've serviced. (This is my first Stronglight). So, as a precaut ion, I am investigating the spindle taper.
Is there anything special about the Stronglight spindle taper requiring Stronglight-only cranks or, can an array of cranks fit the spindle - Campag,
Ofmega, TA, Raleigh badged SR, Gipemme, Zeus, etc.?? (Well maybe not Zeus; t hat could be bizarre, too.). The other side of the coin is how to redploy the Stronglight 93 crank - one will have to know the spindle requirements.
Be nice if one of the tool companies made a set of GO/NOGO gauges for spin dle taper.
Thank you.
Richard Cielec Chicago, Illinois; U.S.A.
--------------------------------- Sneak preview the all-new Yahoo.com. It's not radically different. Just radically better.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 May 2006 22:09:23 -0700 From: "Mark Bulgier" <Mark@bulgier.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: RE: [CR]Re: Gillott with 1 1/8th in top tube Message-ID: <9327C3B25BD3C34A8DBC26145D88A90702CF70@hippy.home.here> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 17
Toni Theilmeier wrote:
> My Gillott Fleur de Lys has an OS top tube. It´s 1954
> and rides like a dream. Pics on
> http://www.wooljersey.com/
In case anyone had trouble finding those pix, start with
http://www.wooljersey.com/
Mark Bulgier Seattle WA USA
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 30 May 2006 9:37:22 +0100 From: <greenjersey@ntlworld.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Stainless steel spokes Message-ID: <20060530083722.ARE16086.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.nt lworld.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 18
My mum used to cruise about on a Raleigh roadster that had stainless steel r ims and spokes. I would guess that it was made in the fifties or early sixties. Ray Green, Brighton, England
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 41, Issue 112 **************************************************