Dear Edward and CR listers:
I'm very sympathetic to Edward's post (below) about criteria for judging bike shows.
Starting in 1984 and at least once a year, sometimes 3 times a year, I designed, promoted and produced judged bike shows I called "Concours de CyclArt".
In 1997, I wrote two articles on the subject and offered my experience to others. I think the articles are still valid today and go directly the points Edward raises. They can be seen on the CyclArt website at:
http://www.cyclart.com/
Other related stories are at:
http://www.cyclart.com/
Looking at the stories again, I realize that I have some great old photos of the events, I'll try to add photos to these pages soon.
If you read the stories on my site, you'll see that it takes considerable effort to produce and judge a bike show "right". Most of my events also had a swap meet, rides and guest speakers. They were expensive to promote and produce, and only once made profit, which was used to found a local bike club. I primarily used hard mail flyers, phone and personal contacts in those times before the CR list or even wide spread use of email. By 1997, since I was practically breaking the bank at CyclArt in producing the increasingly ambitious events, I included a plea in the piece above for some help and I asked those who had great collections to make more of an effort to participate. I did not get enough of either. I then ceased the events and founded the Vintage Bicycle Association, (another story) and offered my help and experience to anyone who wanted to do similar events.
There are references to the GWBR in the "judgment" article. This is a large gathering of Cyclists in Paseo Robles, CA over Memorial Day weekend. I started attending the event in 1975 and suggested a bike show as one of the activities. There has been a show there every year since (at least in 20 times I have attended) and there have been some quality entrants. Awards are given based on a "peoples choice vote" with 1st, 2nd and 3rd in 4 categories. In recent years, the quality and volume of participation has fallen off and I suggested that I could help by applying my judging system. My proposal was rejected because the promoter though the system was "too professional" and preferred to stay with the existing one. Certainly some believe that taking any competition seriously can flush the fun out of an event. I suppose it can, if poorly designed and managed. On the other hand, it seems it can encourage more and better entries by recognizing them with meaningful awards and giving them something to strive for. One only needs to look at the other, much larger and more rapidly growing event in Paseo Robles that weekend, the "West Coast Customs" Auto Show. Real judging, serious awards and professionalism have not hurt that event one bit!
Judging as I recommend is work for the judges and a data entry person. It's very hard to find qualified judges willing to take on the task. I find it very rewarding, and I think the judges who used the system in 1995-7 also thought so. Still, I'm very grateful to anyone who will judge, as it means they must at least take time from a day they'd rather enjoy with friends, to study and make some tough decisions. I also recognise that there will always be those who disagree with any decision, so a judge always risks alienating someone to some degree. The system I use is specifically designed to reduce that potential by averaging judge scores, providing an objective means to rank winners and flexibile, non-heirachical awards.
Ive been very pleased to see the growth and success of the Cirque event. Dale asked me to judge the first Cirque show and I did so using the system described in the "Judgement" article. I'm forever grateful for that, as he arranged and paid my hotel cost to help make the trip possible for me. I'd like to attend more Cirques, but cash is always very tight for me and I have customers waiting. Also as an admitted workaholic, I can't really justify the trip to "play". I'm also thankful to Chuck Schmidt for the opportunity to speak at his first symposium, and I'm very pleased and proud of the "Best restoration ribbon from the most recent Velo Rendezvous. It IS nice to have one's work recognized at these gatherings.
I'm glad to see that Dale and others are producing events similar to the ones I did starting in 1984. I wish them all the best and I'll help where I can. If there were a real demand and there was no conflict with other events, I might be convinced to resume producing events, but that would take some serious lobbying...
Jim Cunningham CyclArt Vista, CA
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org]On Behalf Of Edward Albert Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 5:04 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Cirque Bike Show Judging criteria
I've have been told that I sometimes shoot from the hip without thinking, and thus oftentimes shoot myself in the foot, but here goes anyway. If you don't have the time for a long dissertation delete this message now!!!!! I had a 10+ hour solitary drive back from Greensboro to New York on Monday so I had some time to think about this subject. And I've read a number of posts concerning it, and it is something that both interests and concerns me, so here goes. I taught Sociology for 28+ years. It is a field that has been accused of advocating a position of extreme relativity. Everything is everything. One can only judge something by its own values, there are no objective standards, etc., etc., etc.. I must say for a number of years I was an advocate of this position. Over the years I changed quite dramatically and, in part because of that change, I left the field. Maybe I am going to get too Platonic here but....there are values, there is good and bad, there are standards, and some things are better than others. We all know how to tell the difference even though sometimes we don't know how to articulate how we know or what we know. We know that a 1974 Masi California is intrinsically BETTER than a Schwinn voyager or whatever. I am competitive by nature. I raced bicycles because I wanted to win and not just to participate or to do my personal best * if I wanted that, I would have taken up jogging or something else. You trained hard in order to win, or place. This was a validation of the work that you put in. Also, it was an OBJECTIVE standard, there was no "I know what I like" subjectivism about who crossed the line first (at least not usually.) Additionally, before the race we all hung out and talked, then tried to beat each other up on the road or track, then it was over and we hung out and talked....we talked about the race......we talked about the next race....etc, etc. we weren't enemies and the racing "fraternity" was as important as the race itself. So, what I am trying to say is that the camaraderie of the Cirque and events like it is not necessarily compromised by the competition of judging the various 'bests'. But just how does one do this judging? Chuck Schmidt suggested that it, perhaps, is more trouble than it's worth. And, in the end that may indeed be the case. But maybe not, at least I hope not. The competition for the best of something, at least for me, drives me to do my very best in my restorations or acquisitions. I work hard at it, enjoy that work, and love the recognition that comes when others feel the same way about my work and recognize it: that is the reality. Maybe that is the difference between people who are inner directed vs outer directed, but that is as it may be. Over the several years that I have been involved in the collecting and showing of vintage bikes I have done very well. In my first Cirque I won Best in show. So, this is not sour grapes and this is not, in any way, a criticism of the judging at the Cirque. They did what they could do given the mandate they had. However, I sincerely believe that there are more objective standards. Please don't throw at me the stalking horse of Ken Denny. There I said the name. There are in other collector groups standards that judges use to decide very difficult and close decisions. Cars and motorcycles certainly come immediately to mind but thinks like piano or guitar competitions are not irrelevant. What are these standards? They are varied and comprehensive. They involve things like presentation, accuracy, historical importance, beauty, feeling, and things I am ignorant of. But judges are picked who can use these standards and are given a list of them to guide their decision making. THAT is what, I think, is and has been missing in vintage bike gatherings. The guidelines that eliminate. to the degree possible, the subjective "I know what (or worse yet who) I like." To me it is not OK that it is only about the friends I make. I could join AA for that. I am addicted to vintage bikes. I work at that addiction and, even when I lose, I want to know when I am doing a good job, and if I am not, what I need to do to improve those restorations. One last comment, if you are still reading. I do not think that combining KOF builders and vintage restorations is appropriate. They are apples and oranges and I have thought that since my attendance at my first Cirque last year. I know I have now committed heresy but who the F cares, I just had dinner and two glasses of wine (good French Cote de Rhone BTW). These categories should be separated and judged by two different standards. Just because a bike is steel and lugged (or fillet brazed for that matter) does not make them subject to the same standards. 1920's fish mouthed lugged bikes cannot compete with 2006 filed, filled, and filleted modern art. One is not better or worse but they are totally different and to put them together is like judging a modern Lamborghini against a 50's Chevy.....this does not compute! Anyway, to end this diatribe. I think show judging is good, if makes us better, it does not destroy the friendships we make, it is not elitist, and it should involve more objective criteria. It is our job to create that criteria. Edward Albert, ever competitive in Chappaqua, NY
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