Re: [CR]Re: Paramount P-13 vs P-15

Example: Production Builders:Peugeot

From: "Andrew Bohlmann" <>
To: "Thomas Dusky" <>, <>
References: <> <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Paramount P-13 vs P-15
Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 08:31:20 -0700

Dear All,

My '73 P-13 custom built also had the $50 Campagnolo brake option. I didn't have the $50 but I got the wood filled rims, Clement Del Mondo(?) tires, and Campagnolo bar end shifters. I worked at a Schwinn store just north of Milwaukee, WI which had an old 6-day mechanic working there. The Schwinn guys from the factory in Chicago always came up to see Mel and brought stuff for him to play with and try out. I picked up my P-13 at the factory.

The P-13's were several years behind in current racing geometry and the P-13's rode like a touring frame when compared to what was coming out of Italy at the time. The 1972 US Olympic Team rode custom P-13's with real race geometry built by Mainline (sp?) in Racine, WI...I think.

Andy Bohlmann

Colorado Springs, CO (C.O.N.I. Manual chapters here)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Dusky"
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: [CR]Re: Paramount P-13 vs P-15

> Hello
> I have a '72 P13 Chrome That I purchased new.
> Winemann sidepulls came standard $50 extra for Campy sidepulls.
> A few years ago on club ride I came across another rider with a '72 P15
> chrome same size frame 25 inch.
> I was interested in geometry differences, in comparing the bikes visually
> I found:
> More rake in the fork on the P15.
> Longer Chainstays on the P15.
> Angles seemed to be close to the same.
> Racing bikes of this have the best rides!
> Tom Dusky
> Huntington Woods MI
>> OK. So the frame materials are the same -- but what about the geometry?
>> Was there any difference between the frame of the "racing" P-13 and the
>> "touring" P-15, other than dropout eyelets?
>> David
>> David G. White
>> Burlington, VT
>> Matthew T Churches wrote:
>>> David,
>>> The P13 and P15 Paramounts materials were the same of that era (Nervex
>>> lugs and Reynolds 531 frame with Campagnolo droupouts). The P15 came
>>> set up as a triple crank and often with centerpull brakes, 27"
>>> clincher wheelsets, a wider range freewheel and different rear
>>> derailleur. The P15 also has eyelets on the front and rear were the
>>> P13 does not.
>>> I want a P15 to go with the P13 (two right now) and the P14 I
>>> currently own.
>>> Matt Churches
>>> Ann Arbor, MI
>>> David G. White writes:
>>>> I'm researching the differences between the P-13 and P-15 circa 1972.
>>>> The Waterford website has a Paramount history that includes the
>>>> following:
>>>> Paramounts grew to five models:
>>>> * P-10 - Deluxe Paramount - designed for non-competition road
>>>> riding
>>>> and included front and rear eyelets, 27 x 1 1/4" clincher tires
>>>> and Weinmann center pull brakes. It usually came with Campagnolo
>>>> Record components. You could order it with Campy side pulls
>>>> and/or
>>>> custom geometry as an option.
>>>> * P-11 - Paramount Tourist - designed for upright bars and
>>>> recreational rides. It was available on a special order basis
>>>> only. The ladies version was designated P61.
>>>> * P-12 - This was the old designator for the Paramount Racer - now
>>>> becoming the P10.
>>>> * P-13 - Road Racing Paramount - designed for competition, this
>>>> model came with tubulars and Campy sidepulls stock.
>>>> * P-14 - Track - Full Campy track components including wide flange
>>>> hubs and tubular tired wheels.
>>>> * P-15 - Deluxe Paramount with 15 speeds (triple front chainrings).
>>>> Start with the P-10 and add a wide gear range (generally a
>>>> Shimano
>>>> or Huret) long cage derailleur.
>>>> My question is: circa 1972 was there any difference between the frame
>>>> of the P-13 and the P-15 (tubing, geometry, etc)? Or were the
>>>> differences solely with regard to the equipment with which the bike
>>>> was built?
>>>> Best,
>>>> David
>>>> David G. White
>>>> Burlington, VT