Re: AW: [CR]Re: Derny


Example: Framebuilding

From: "Martin Appel" <martin@team-ware.de>
Subject: Re: AW: [CR]Re: Derny
To: "Schmid" <schmidi@gaponline.de>, "'Hilary Stone'" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>, "'Mitch Harris'" <mitch.harris@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:57:40 +0200
In-Reply-To: <000001c8251a$92d1a790$0202fea9@Twinhead>
References: <000001c8251a$92d1a790$0202fea9@Twinhead>
cc: 'Classicrendezvous' <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
cc: 'Classicrendezvous'

Michael is right here, stayer races are out of fashion... but dery races aren't. They still are a part of the traditional sixdays events, and, as can be seen here in this picture of the current Munich sixday event. http://www.cyclingnews.com/track.php?id=/photos/2007/nov07/munich07/munich071/BU0711081143 they are vintage and lugged steel too (though neither the rider nor the derny could easliy be called "lightweight" :)

Martin Appel Munich, Germany

"Schmid" <schmidi@gaponline.de> schrieb:
>Fellow Listmembers,
>As far as my understanding goes (and i am by no means an expert in
>track
>racing) there are two sorts of motorbikes used for diefferent Races,
>the
>mentioned Dernys for motorpacing on the track like in Keirin racing
>and
>Stayer Motorbikes for stayers races. The latter have a roller at their
>back since the rider of the motorbike is standing on the footrests
>while
>pacing to give more wind deflection for the bike rider who is follwing
>up pretty close.
>In Germany we have a saying "Der ist von der Rolle" meaning somebody
>is
>getting crazy or behaving agressively. It origins from the beginning
>of
>the last century were track bike racing was extremely popular, even
>more
>than our national sport soccer. They used the saying when a rider was
>not able anymore to stay behind the motorbike in a stayer race and
>lost
>"touch" with the attached roller and there for got angry for loosing
>the
>race.
>Although nobody is watching stayer races anymore the saying is still
>present in our daily language.
>
>
>Michael Schmid
>Oberammergau
>Germany
>Tel.: +49 8821 798790
>Fax.:+49 8821 798791
>mail: schmid@zunterer.com
>www.zunterer.com
>
>
>-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
>Von: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org
>[mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] Im Auftrag von Hilary
>Stone
>Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. November 2007 14:48
>An: Mitch Harris
>Cc: Fred Rednor; Classicrendezvous
>Betreff: Re: [CR]Re: Derny
>
>
>Derny was the name of a specific company that manufactured Entraineurs
>
>(used to pace bicycles in certain road races and on the track) and for
>
>training. They also made other machines for touring and a tandem for
>touring as well as something that was close to being a moped. Modern
>Dernys are still being made in Europe with I think mostly Steyr Puch
>motors. The rules governing the design and construction of these
>machines have not changed significantly over the years and do not
>allow
>for any variation in design. They do not have rollers. Only the full
>size pacing motorbikes have rollers. Many tracks do have have adapted
>motorcycles for training and many have rollers but these are not
>Dernys
>in any sense of the word.
>
>Please some pictures I posted at:
>
>http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/hilarystone/Derny/
>
>These pictures apart from the model are from the Boneshaker article on
>
>Dernys.
>
>Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
>
>Mitch Harris wrote:
>> On Nov 10, 2007 12:55 PM, Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> > <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>> > > No, Dernys do not have a roller -
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps not typically (?) but I've ridden a lot of miles
>>> > behind different dernys that were fitted with rollers in
>>> > back.
>>>
>>> Perhaps the bone of contention here is that there are the orginal
>>> dernies, made in France by the Derny brothers, and there are
>"generic
>
>>> dernies" made by others. It's like Kleenex and kleenex, or Hoover
>>> and hoover. (Or bespoke vs. Bespoke, for that matter.) Perhaps
>none
>
>>> of this will make sense, unless you are both a native English
>speaker
>
>>> and a long time member of the CR list. (If you're confused, I can
>>> explain off-list.)
>>
>> Perhaps the difference is an aftermarket change. Another difference
>is
>
>> that my experience is out-of-timeline (late 80s/90s) with small
>fleets
>
>> of otherwise identical Dernys in Europe where some of them had the
>> roller and some not. The roller looked like something that could
>have
>> been added. Hilary's information would suggest that Dernys were not
>
>> supplied stock with rollers.
>>
>> Mitch Harris
>> Little Rock Canyon, Utah