Re: AW: [CR]Re: Derny

Example: Framebuilding

From: "Martin Appel" <>
Subject: Re: AW: [CR]Re: Derny
To: "Schmid" <>, "'Hilary Stone'" <>, "'Mitch Harris'" <>
Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 14:57:40 +0200
In-Reply-To: <000001c8251a$92d1a790$0202fea9@Twinhead>
References: <000001c8251a$92d1a790$0202fea9@Twinhead>
cc: 'Classicrendezvous' <>
cc: 'Classicrendezvous'

Michael is right here, stayer races are out of fashion... but dery races aren't. They still are a part of the traditional sixdays events, and, as can be seen here in this picture of the current Munich sixday event. they are vintage and lugged steel too (though neither the rider nor the derny could easliy be called "lightweight" :)

Martin Appel Munich, Germany

"Schmid" <> schrieb:
>Fellow Listmembers,
>As far as my understanding goes (and i am by no means an expert in
>racing) there are two sorts of motorbikes used for diefferent Races,
>mentioned Dernys for motorpacing on the track like in Keirin racing
>Stayer Motorbikes for stayers races. The latter have a roller at their
>back since the rider of the motorbike is standing on the footrests
>pacing to give more wind deflection for the bike rider who is follwing
>up pretty close.
>In Germany we have a saying "Der ist von der Rolle" meaning somebody
>getting crazy or behaving agressively. It origins from the beginning
>the last century were track bike racing was extremely popular, even
>than our national sport soccer. They used the saying when a rider was
>not able anymore to stay behind the motorbike in a stayer race and
>"touch" with the attached roller and there for got angry for loosing
>Although nobody is watching stayer races anymore the saying is still
>present in our daily language.
>Michael Schmid
>Tel.: +49 8821 798790
>Fax.:+49 8821 798791
>-----Urspr√ľngliche Nachricht-----
>[] Im Auftrag von Hilary
>Gesendet: Sonntag, 11. November 2007 14:48
>An: Mitch Harris
>Cc: Fred Rednor; Classicrendezvous
>Betreff: Re: [CR]Re: Derny
>Derny was the name of a specific company that manufactured Entraineurs
>(used to pace bicycles in certain road races and on the track) and for
>training. They also made other machines for touring and a tandem for
>touring as well as something that was close to being a moped. Modern
>Dernys are still being made in Europe with I think mostly Steyr Puch
>motors. The rules governing the design and construction of these
>machines have not changed significantly over the years and do not
>for any variation in design. They do not have rollers. Only the full
>size pacing motorbikes have rollers. Many tracks do have have adapted
>motorcycles for training and many have rollers but these are not
>in any sense of the word.
>Please some pictures I posted at:
>These pictures apart from the model are from the Boneshaker article on
>Hilary Stone, Bristol, England
>Mitch Harris wrote:
>> On Nov 10, 2007 12:55 PM, Fred Rednor <> wrote:
>>> > <> wrote:
>>> > > No, Dernys do not have a roller -
>>> >
>>> > Perhaps not typically (?) but I've ridden a lot of miles
>>> > behind different dernys that were fitted with rollers in
>>> > back.
>>> Perhaps the bone of contention here is that there are the orginal
>>> dernies, made in France by the Derny brothers, and there are
>>> dernies" made by others. It's like Kleenex and kleenex, or Hoover
>>> and hoover. (Or bespoke vs. Bespoke, for that matter.) Perhaps
>>> of this will make sense, unless you are both a native English
>>> and a long time member of the CR list. (If you're confused, I can
>>> explain off-list.)
>> Perhaps the difference is an aftermarket change. Another difference
>> that my experience is out-of-timeline (late 80s/90s) with small
>> of otherwise identical Dernys in Europe where some of them had the
>> roller and some not. The roller looked like something that could
>> been added. Hilary's information would suggest that Dernys were not
>> supplied stock with rollers.
>> Mitch Harris
>> Little Rock Canyon, Utah