[CR]RE: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 60, Issue 53

> One thing the guys didn't do was call you a blockhead if you rode a
> block chain.
> If you did you ended up in the ditch!
> Like mentioned both chain types were available as well as 1/2" for 100
> years or more.
> !/2 " did not come in block variety. Thats's why many people called
> the 1", skip tooth, or double link chains, because every other tooth
> was out, and the roller chains had two rollers close together.
> And the block was a block, but two rivets were close together and then
> the longer plate.
> Once you have ridden a block chain you will be a convert, if you are
> sensitive enough and appreciative of bike response and the difference
> in the direct feel to your legs.
> You get that direct metallic click in/to your legs, it's a feel like
> no other.( On the bike that is).
> That's why the track bike and it's response when you get off the seat,
> step on it, and whip the bike around either on the road or track is
> such a thrill, if your're into that kind of stuff.
> Age is no excuse, it's attitude that counts. YIPPIE, here I go!!
> If this is of no interest then shine on it, and go for the historic
> value only.
> The block chain was preferred by sprinters mostly thru the years
> because when you rode it, it had that "crisp", "snappy" feel
> especially when you jumped and accelerated quickly.
> True, you had less gear finesse selection, but the difference to
> sprinters and track riders was from 23-24-25 usually in one tooth
> jumps for gear selection and the half gear didn't seem to make enuf difference.
> As time and mettalurgy progressed, the roller chains got better and as
> riding got more detailed, the 1/2" prevailed and started to replace the 1"
> beginning in the later '50's in Europe and making it's way over here.
> The roller chain rolls much smoother and the added friction of the
> rollers didn't seem to matter as much in these newer years, so it was
> a combination of these factors that changed the equipment.
> Maybe I 'll think of more, if not, you can jump in the paceline and do
> your pull to help out with commentary.
> I rode my bike yesterday, going for a little run with Mary now, and
> tomorrow is a rest day, (Yard Work).
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> CA USA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Betmanis" <johnb@oxford.net>
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 6:49 AM
> Subject: [CR]Why block chain?
>
>
>> I've been around vintage bikes for decades before they were ever
>> vintage, but I still don't know why block chains were used on old track bikes.
>> They
>> can't be stronger unless the side plates have more cross-section area
>> and I can't see how they could be smoother. The gear ratios available
>> are just half as many as with regular roller chains. So what's the
>> reason? Could it just be tradition, or that's how all chains were
>> before the roller chain was invented?
>>
>> John Betmanis
>> Woodstock, Ontario
>> Canada
>> _______________________________________________
>
> _______________________________________________

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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:25:12 -0800 (PST) From: Fred Rednor <fred_rednor@yahoo.com> To: "classicrendezvous@bikelist.org" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]1984 Peugeot Questions Message-ID: <997291.37348.qm@web30605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <24145427.1197488249324.JavaMail.root@elwamui-royal.atl.sa.earthlink.net>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 2
> I have a 1984 Peugeot PVS-10 that is in great shape, but I've decided
> to retire it as a regular rider/trainer.
> What was the correct white (actually, more off-white) bar wrap and how
> hard is it to find?
> The rear brake cable has a bit of rust at the rearmost cable guide. Is
> clear-coated brake cable housing still available?
> Also, the weinmann gum brake hoods are shot and I need to find some of
> those.
> There is a pair on Fleabay right now for $50. ouch.
>
> Early on, I had a set of wheels made up w/ Mavic MA-3's to replace the
> Mavic red-label tubulars that were on it. While I used a more modern
> Shimano 600 hub for the front, I re-used the rear Maillard for the
> rear. So I need a rim for the rear as well. Or, do I just run it as a
> PVSN-10? ; )
>
>
> The question is, is the bike really worth it to return it to original?
> The decals are in good shape and the paint (anthracite or Black
> Metalic) is good, but w/ some scratches only through to the white
> primer.
>
> What are your thoughts? I plan to hang the bike on a wall, but still
> ride it from time to time...

John, Although your bike was actually built after the CR list's 1983 cut-off date, the PSV-10 frame and parts are all straight out of 1979, if you know what I mean. It is also one of the greatest bicycle bargains of all time, so don't ever get rid it. The frame is nicely made and light - from Super Vitus tubing), derailleurs are the better Simplex pieces, and the crankset is Stronglight. (Or was it Nervar?) The brakes are kind of cheap but, in my experience, work better than Campagnolo brakes from that era. Plus, they're lighter. Isn't the rear hub a Helicomatic unit, though? It's become difficult to find replacement freewheels for those. You MUST keep this bike, clean it up and ride it! As for bar tape, it was similar to the stuff sold by Bike Ribbon - i.e. faux leather - and might actually have been Bike Ribbon. Anyway, you can still get the stuff from your local bike shop, or here: http://www.bikemannetwork.com/biking/p/COMPGRRDBR/HT3801 The stuff is in the Quality Bike Parts catalogue. Cheers, Fred Rednor - Arlington, Virginia (USA)

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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:57:43 +0000 From: Hilary Stone <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk> To: Classicrendezvous <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR] Ebay Outing Message-ID: <47604B47.5030906@blueyonder.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: list Message: 3

Below is a list of items which I've put up on Ebay. For a change this week there are some earlier British frames both the Hawkes and the Gillott are especially nice. And the Armstrong is a very good example of a just pre-war top quality frame from a medium sized maker built with continental lugs (these are featured in the Brown Bros 1938 catalogue and I think may be an early lug design from Ekla - the forks are pure Russ design - which in their original type used round blades - confirmation of the date came from the Williams C1000 chainset dated 1938. But the special star of the week, the Pegoretti frame is off topic though steel... There are some other lovely parts and accessories too - the Major Taylor stem, Campag Record 36H large flange hubs, a gear sided Airlite large flange rear hub in very nice condition, NOS Sturmey 3/4spd trigger from the late 40s early 50s, Hobbs Lytalloy brake callipers, a really nice Reynolds aluminium seatpost, Universal Extra deep drop brake callipers and Weinmann Alesa 27in rims in both 36H or 32/40H versions and set of silver anodised Mavic MA2 36H rims... For those interested in British cycle racing history Ride and Be Dammed is an essential detailing the trials and tribulations of the BLRC the body that introduced proper road racing in the UK; additionlly the book has lots of great photos and is beautifully designed...

The auctions finish on Sunday as usual and all are best found using my ebay identity hilarystone or go to:

http://search.ebay.co.uk/_W0QQcatrefZC5QQfbdZ1QQfclZ3QQflocZ1QQfromZR6QQf rpp Z50QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQfssZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQga10244Z10425QQnojsprZyQQpfid Z0Q QsaaffZafdefaultQQsacatZQ2d1QQsacqyopZgeQQsacurZ0QQsadisZ200QQsargnZQ2d1Q Qsa slZhilarystoneQQsaslcZ0QQsaslopZ1QQsasltZ2QQsofocusZbsQQsspagenameZhQ3ahQ 3aa dvsearchQ3aUk

Hilary Stone, Bristol, England

=09 ARMSTRONG CLUBMANS FRAME Russ forks 1938 Reynolds 531

RALEIGH SIGN 1980s Burner Team Banana 75 x 20cm

HAWKES 24in FRAME c1939 Chater lugs Beautiful forks

COLNAGO 2006 DEALER CATALOGUE includes Ferrari models

OLMO PVC HANDLEBAR TAPE NOS NIB 1960s

CAMPAGNOLO CROCE D’AUNE CHAINSET 52/39T c1989

TANDEM SEATPOST 26.4mm seatpost 1930s

CINELLI UNICANITOR No 4 SADDLE 1970s

UNIVERSAL EXTRA BRAKE CALLIPERS Early 1950s Deep drop

HOBBS LYTALLOY BRAKE CALLIPERS 1940s

CAMPAGNOLO RECORD LARGE FLANGE 36H HUBS 6-spd 60s/70s

GILLOTT 23in ROAD FRAME 1947 A Rare early Gillott

CAMPAGNOLO KIT BAG 1980s

SR RANDONNEUR BARS 1970s/80s

MIDDLEBURN ROAD CRANKSET 130mm bcd 180mm 405g c1994

CAMPAGNOLO C-RECORD CRANKSET 175mm c1988

STURMEY ARCHER 4-SPD TRIGGER c1950 NOS

CINELLI 1A 9cm STEM 1980s

STRONGLIGHT MYGAL TRACK CRANKSET 165mm Unused

LUCAS MILEOMETER for 26in wheels NOS

CAMPAGNOLO C-RECORD SEATPOST 26.8mm seatpin c1988

RALEIGH TRACK FRAME 21·5in 1972 ex Ian White, etc

CAMPAGNOLO SAFETY VEST

SIMPLEX DOUBLE SHIFTER PARTS c1953

MAILLARD 700 36H LARGE FLANGE FRONT HUB SPIDEL NOS 1980

SIMPLEX WHEEL STOPS NOS 1940s/50s

CAMPAGNOLO TRIOMPHE PEDALS c1987 suitable for wide shoe

STRONGLIGHT 100 CHAINSET 44/28T 170mm 1980s

CYCLO LEVER w THUMB DAMPER for STANDARD GEAR very rare =09 BROOKS B17 NARROW 1970s/80s

PEUGEOT 753 ROAD FRAME c1986 54cm

TA VEGA CHAINSET 165mm cranks 130mm bcd 48/38T NOS

SIMPLEX COMPETITION ROD FRONT GEAR c1949

LUCAS MILEOMETER for 27in wheels NOS NIB

REYNOLDS NO 5 SEATPOST 1930s/50s 27.2mm

CAMPAGNOLO SUPER RECORD SEATPOST 27.0mm seatpin

1950s/60s ALUMINIUM PING BELL as used by time triallist =09 CINELLI XA 12cm STEM 1990s excellent

AIRLITE LARGE FLANGE GEAR REAR HUB 40H Rare

PEGORETTI FRAME 55cm exItalian Pro 1994 Air brush paint

SABA HAIRNET HELMET size 57 (7) NOS

BRITISH LEATHER CYCLE SHOES 9.5 UK, 10 US, 44

MAJOR TAYLOR STEM 1930s-50s For tandem or solo

ARIUS PRESTIGE PERFORATED SADDLE 1970s/80s

MILREMO SADDLE 1970s

CINELLI 66 BARS 40cm Early 1970s 3 ring

RIDE AND BE DAMMED British Road Race History 1940s/50s

TA AXIX CARTRIDGE BEARING BOTTOM BRACKET 110mm NOS NIB

ROTRAX CYCLES MUSETTE 1970s

HEADCLIP TYPE HANDLEBAR CLIP No extension 1930s

LYOTARD 45CA QUILL PEDALS 1950s/60s

1940s BRITISH 3-ARM CRANKS takes Williams chainrings

MILREMO 5-PIN CRANKS for TA BSA Stronglight Williams

CINELLI 65 CRITERIUM BARS 42cm 1980s

F H GRUBB HEAD BADGE 1930s

ZEUS FRONT TRACK HUB 32H

REGINA EXTRA 13-21T 5-SPEED FREEWHEEL NOS

CLEMENT/CAMPAGNOLO TYRE PRESSURE GAUGE

ITM SUPER PRO 260 BARS 42cm wide 26.0mm

WEINMANN ALESA 27 x 1 1/4in rims 36H Excellent

MAVIC MA2 700C 36H Rare Argent type almost unused

CINELLI 1A 9.5cm STEM 1970s =09 CYCLISME 1960 French Racing 1959 =09 WEINMANN 730 BRAKESET NOS NIB early 1970s =09 TERRYS STOP WATCH CLIP 1950s/60s

OMAS TITANIUM BOTTOM BRACKET 1970s =09 CAMPAGNOLO ATB SEATPIN PARTS NOS 26.6mm =09 ITM ECLIPSE 13cm STEM 1990s 1in quill =09 WEINMANN ALESA 27 x 1 1/4in rims 32/40H Excellent =09 MAFAC CANTILEVER DRIVER ARMS c1960

CINELLI 1A 8cm STEM 1980s

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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:13:24 -0500 From: "Tom Sanders" <tsan7759142@sbcglobal.net> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Taylor Bikes of Chicago Message-ID: <003701c83d03$d52fb950$7f8f2bf0$@net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 4

I walked into a friend's place today and he has a vintage trike sitting there. It is a Taylor. I remarked that it must be British and he told me that this was a Chicago company. It is a 1952 with sort of Art Deco lines to it and an inch pitch chain! Supposedly it cost over $100 in 1952. Does anyone know of a Taylor that was made in Chicago? My impression is that it may have been a Schwinn competitor. New one on me.

Tom Sanders

Lansing, MI USA

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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:16:56 -0600 From: "Philip W. Moore, Jr." <philip_w_moore_jr@hotmail.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]WTT a 58 cm Concorde Astore for a 57-58 cm vintage bike Message-ID: <BAY113-DAV158C2F1B98EB2730EAE31F81650@phx.gbl> Message-ID: <2C1FD96BBD2B4CA0B5857E961A4AFB30@PhilipWMoorePC> In-Reply-To: <MONKEYFOODKu6PqmUfU0000490b@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> References: <MONKEYFOODKu6PqmUfU0000490b@monkeyfood.nt.phred.org> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5

Listmates:

I have a 58 cm Concorde Astore (circa 199that I am interested in trading for a complete CR-era bike with Nuovo Record or Super Record components. More on what I want for my bike will follow the description of my bike.

My bike is a 58 cm, and is equipped with mostly Chorus parts (including the shifters, which have the diagonal grooves in the levers and do not bear the Chorus label and the pretty, albeit weak, monoplaner brakes) and some Athena parts (I will need your help verifying which parts are Athena). The bike has 175 cranks with 53/39 rings, a 140 mm Cinelli stem, Cinelli 66-44 bars, a modern American Classic Seatpost, and a modern Selle San Marco saddle that looks like an Aspide (a/k/a sit-bone splitter) that I snagged from a saddle bin at my LBS (it was taken off a stock bike or traded for a saddle that fit somebody better). Note: when I bought the bike, it came without a saddle and with a straight-up f-u-g-l-y seatpost that must have been taken off a Huffy that was not made by Ben Serotta. I will toss in two silver bottle cages that will hold water bottles but that look like they were fashioned from recycles coat hangers.

I bought this bike cheap because it sat around forever and had to be completely tuned-up (done by my LBS; I'm mechanically retarded, err, challenged). The housing was replaced by my LBS, but I have a set of brand-new Campy cables that I'll pass along at my cost (close to wholesale).

The bike is clean, but does look like it was ridden. I would rate the bike as 10/10 mechanically (an honest and objective evaluation), 7.5/10 cosmetically (irrespective of the bike's vintage, but not a purely objective evaluation) and about an 8/10 in terms of its condition, all things considered (objective and subjective). I can send pictures of my bike to your email address should you ask me to do so privately (i.e. not through the listserver), but I will have to take them first. In any event, I will let the pictures do the rest of the talking.

Now what I want it return for my bike and (perhaps) some cash. As I said, I want a CR-era and CR-equipped (i.e. with NR or SR) bike, 57-58 cm in size, that's in a condition comparable to how I described that of my Concorde. With that said, I don't expect your cherry Legnano or anything, and might settle for a decent Raleigh Professional or something similar. Actually, a Ron Cooper is what I really want!

A brief apology: the last time I posted, I offered a chrome fork for sale. A friend of mine managed to break its crown (near the steering tube). I am sorry for the lack of communication to those of you who expressed interest in the fork.

Regards,

Philip W. Moore, Jr. Frisco, Texas, U.S.A. (469) 323-0832

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Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:32:23 -0500 From: genediggs@aol.com To: ternst1@cox.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org, johnb@oxford.net Subject: Re: [CR]Why block chain? Message-ID: <8CA0B1D9E49F402-894-699C@MBLK-M06.sysops.aol.com> In-Reply-To: <008501c83cfb$7e19ff70$0300a8c0@D8XCLL51> References: <3.0.6.32.20071212094932.015981a0@mailhost.oxford.net> <006301c83cf7$a3a04f00$0300a8c0@D8XCLL51> <008501c83cfb$7e19ff70$0300a8c0@D8XCLL51> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6

Ted and list members: I am a year or two younger than Ted but we rode in same races a half a dozen times a summer back in the fifties and sixties. A lot of them were in city parks with a mile or shorter circuit but usually ridden on track bikes. The program was a couple of short scratch races and then a ten or twenty mile points race. I must admit I would try and catch Ted's wheel in a sprint, not to pass him at the line, but just stay with him and hopefully be in the top ten and win a trophy. That's what we rode for back in those days. I still have my last Paramount tack bike (see #389 on the Fixed Gear Gallery) I think it was the last year that Paramount's came with inch pitch and block chains as standard equipment.

Gene Diggs Rochester Hills , MI, USA

-----Original Message----- From: ternst <ternst1@cox.net> To: ternst <ternst1@cox.net>; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org; John Betmanis <johnb@oxford.net> Sent: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 3:13 pm Subject: Re: [CR]Why block chain?

I knew something eluded me. 

The metallic direct response feel was steel chain on steel chainring. 

With the increasing usage of aluminum chainrings, that feel was about half diminished so that also aided the changeover to 1/2" pitch. 

Ted Ernst 

Palos Verdes Estates 

CA USAÂ