I think a big issue right now is that there is a shifting focus to 80's super record bikes. The DeRosa under question, the early need-a-new-restoration early Masi Pista that Scott Davis sold awhile ago, and the Cinelli 1960 high-patina-but-gorgeous frame that sold last week all indicate a market shift. There simply is no market depth to the market for these machines.
What the market is saying is that bicycles built with stamped lugs (more time intensive) from what I think was a glorious time period (the era of Merckx) are not floating the boats of many perhaps newbies to the hobby. Part of this is - and this will offend - indicates a lack of framebuilding knowledge on the part of many buyers. Years ago our Gita rep said the biggest enhancement to framebuilding from a manufacturers perspective was the introduction of new paint primers that were great at hiding blems. Add that to cast lugs, and we are getting closer to the "plug and play" frame construction than many would want to admit.
It was interesting that a recent post by a graduate of the UBI frame building program had to jump to cast lugs since the stamped ones were too much of a project. There is a very important message in that.
So is this good or bad? Well I've thinned out much of my bike stable lately, and if the market decides to reward the mass-produced ($*%( and undervalues the "good stuff", I think I may be all for it as I will go into a buy-mode at some point again perhaps. But am I planning at the moment to revise the price guide I wrote years ago? Not until I can make sense of this market that has no basis in reason as I understand it.
Mike Kone in Boulder CO USA - where the air is dry and the lugs are handmade. Boulder Bicycle Rene Herse Bicycles Inc. and Housingmetrics too!
> George H. wrote:
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Dale:
\r?\n> Never was there a more accurate post put on CR.
\r?\n> There is nothing inherently superior about one vintage bike with respect to
\r?\n> another,
\r?\n> save the notion, which cannot be proven, that it was personally made by a
\r?\n> builder
\r?\n> admired by the purchaser. Even such an idea is flawed, since bike manufacture
\r?\n> represents
\r?\n>
\r?\n> ********
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Actually, the frame on ebay went a little low, in my opinion. Try finding one
\r?\n> of these in original, complete condition. Try.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> It's not easy. Very few, comparatively, came into North America. Most stayed
\r?\n> in Europe, and up until about 1978, when De Rosa went to cast lugs and a more
\r?\n> mass-production method of brazing things up, his production was not all that
\r?\n> high, far as I can tell.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> These earlier frames have very cool crowns, pressed-and-filed lugs, and, in
\r?\n> general, a lot more character than the later cast-lug frames.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> It's pretty much as simple as that: relative rarity of this kind of frame..and
\r?\n> the more attractive handwork on the frame.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> also note that if you'd bought it for the price the japanese bidder did, you'd
\r?\n> have paid about $950 landed in the US, then another $600 for a pro paint-job
\r?\n> (more if you want chrome, but not all of them had chrome). Greg Softley makes
\r?\n> the correct graphics for this frame, so those can be had. Most were one color,
\r?\n> pretty inexpensive to spray up.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> total investment? say, $1700 for a fully restored frame, all-in; then another
\r?\n> $500-600 for a nuovo record donor bike. For $2300 you have a very nice classic
\r?\n> CR bike, quite hard to find, that will last another 100 years, with luck. Seems
\r?\n> a very reasonable cost, to me.
\r?\n>
\r?\n> Charles Andrews
\r?\n> Los Angeles