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-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous-request@bik elist.org> Sent: 9/26/2008 3:32:00 PM To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 69, Issue 85
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Re: Concor Campionissimo? CORRECTION- Now Concor Specialissima (Kurt Sperry) 2. Shifty Business (Kurt Sperry) 3. Cinelli 1-R aniticapatory woes (Bianca Pratorius) 4. "Cinelli" on ebay in GB (Jon Spangler) 5. anyone made a dropout alignment tool? (Wayne Davidson) 6. AW: [CR]Alex Singer, correction pronounciation (Schmid) 7. eBay outing - item numbers (Patricia Killiard) 8. Hope from a new generation!? (Dr. Paul Williams) 9. JRJ (pre Bob Jackson) transfers (Peter Brown) 10. Sanjay (Amir Avitzur) 11. BESPOKE frame on UK Ebay (Norris Lockley) 12. Chain for Legnano (Ken Wehrenberg) 13. Re: Chain for Legnano (Norm and Val Lafleur) 14. Sixteen dollar magazines!!!! (Tom Dalton) 15. Re: Chain for Legnano, but really about the Rear Brake 16. Re: Hope from a new generation!?
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Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:23:43 -0700 From: "Kurt Sperry" <haxixe@gmail.com> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR]Re: Concor Campionissimo? CORRECTION- Now Concor Specialissima Message-ID: <75d04b480809252323k5b839a13ua061f30298b54aaa@mail.gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1255674E-A93C-4CA7-AED6-4FA817622354@gmail.com> References: <014D6FAB-BBA6-47EF-94ED-EB4CC20A0473@gmail.com> <1255674E-A93C-4CA7-AED6-4FA817622354@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: haxixe@gmail.com Message: 1
http://picasaweb.google.com/
Here's some photos of one that was sold on ebay as a prototype.
Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA
2008/9/25 Sean Flores <seaneee175@gmail.com>:
> I'd like to come out and say that my short term memory is shot. It actual
ly
> reads "Specialissima", not the former as I originally posted.
>
> Kurt Sperry pointed out that this may be some sort of prototype. Any more
> info would be great.
>
> Sean Flores
> San Francisco, CA
>
>
> On Sep 25, 2008, at 9:33 PM, Sean Flores wrote:
>
>> I recently picked up a Selle San Marco Concor Campionissimo and would li
ke
>> to know if anyone has info on this? It's a very similar shape to other
>> Concors, except with one major difference, a squared off nose, it also s
eems
>> a bit more narrow. Additionally, it has tension adjustment on the unders
ide.
>> It's black suede over plastic with a small bit of padding. The logos on
the
>> side are contained in the outline of a half circle and read Concor/S. Ma
rco/
>> Campionissimo in yellow.
>>
>> Cant seem to find any information on this saddle, age, where it fell in
>> the line up, etc. Thinking it's an early version, but not positive. I'll
try
>> and post up some pics tomorrow, but any info would be great.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sean Flores
>> San Francisco, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:45:11 -0700 From: "Kurt Sperry" <haxixe@gmail.com> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Shifty Business Message-ID: <75d04b480809252345h75082d71t5d077cf23e037c4a@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Reply-To: haxixe@gmail.com Message: 2
Ebay Item 250297191712 Campagnolo Record late indented lettering shifters minus clamp and common bits: Winning bid:US $2.25
Ebay Item 150296275061 Campagnolo Record late indented lettering shifters with clamp and common bits: Winning bid: US $89.00
We report; you decide.
Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA ------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:23:33 -0400 From: Bianca Pratorius <biankita@comcast.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Cinelli 1-R aniticapatory woes Message-ID: <7e7a666dfb64ad7d8125ca3fa76b93f0@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v624) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 3
After five months I am just about to get my Cinneli-esque (Carabella track bike on the road). I have only to build the wheels up this weekend when a box of DT competition spokes arrive at my lbs today. The bars and stem mounted to the frame were the prettiest part of the picture up until I started reading these 1-R horror stories. The bars are Cenilli Milano track bars with beautiful blue Strong-V track grips hairspray glued to the drops and .... the stem is the vaunted gorgeous 1-R in a 100 length. I tried pushing down on the bars while the frame was mounted to the stand and I couldn't get any squeak or a slip. Surely if there is some slippage I could apply some locktite or something similar to the union of stem and bars. I wouldn't want to give up on this lovely classic stem just yet. I'll keep you all posted soon as I intend to try out the bike in my hood before going to the track with it. I previously had problems with slippage with Campy SR seat posts and cured them. I also had squeaking with Dura-Ace stems that looked similar to the Cinelli 1-R but you had to access the clamp binder bolt by sticking a long allen wrench though place where you usually find the stem to fork binder bolt. (I solved that one with grease and torque). Over the years I have seen CR members with unusual fixes to manufacturing deficiencies. I am surprised that the list seems so stimied now in reference the 1-R. Shame on you all for being such defeatists! (If they can send a man to the moon ....)
Garth Libre in Miami Fl USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 02:04:58 -0700 From: Jon Spangler <hudsonspangler@earthlink.net> To: Dale Brown <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]"Cinelli" on ebay in GB Message-ID: <E7BE4A9C-5577-40E6-91D9-BC0C730AAF10@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain;charset=UTF-8;delsp=yes;format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v753.1) Precedence: list Message: 4
Dear CR folks,
The "CINELLI VINTAGE TRACK,PISTA,FIXED GEAR,FRAME & FORK" (item #180292508290 on ebay in the UK) is now up to 62 GBP, or about $114, with 12 bidders and four days to go until the auction ends. (I wonder
if any of them know how to identify a Cinelli or a real track frame?)
As I think more on it, the frame reminds me of my wife's old entry- level Lotus, a Japanese frame of long TT and solid construction that was nothing remarkable from a ride standpoint. ï¿? I think the Cinelli decals might have been added as a joke by the person who painted the bike, perhaps the owner prior to this seller. (It would be a good inside joke if you knew what the bike really was... :-)
Jon Spangler in Alameda, CA USA, where his search for a new frame that fits continues, but it won't be a pink "Cinelli"...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 21:13:50 +1200 From: Wayne Davidson <wayne.collect@xtra.co.nz> To: CR <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]anyone made a dropout alignment tool? Message-ID: <48DCA7CE.6000802@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 5
Hi all, has anyone made there own, I was thinking about doing so using a Campagnolo NR RD mounting bolt. Anyone with any pix?, please feel free to send any to me direct..........regards wayne davidson Invers NZ........
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:14:07 +0200 From: "Schmid" <schmidi@gaponline.de> Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: AW: [CR]Alex Singer, correction pronounciation Message-ID: <000c01c91fb8$3b4a2c10$1b58a8c0@Twinhead> In-Reply-To: <75d04b480809251155g6e3c8e53qd0078cdcbc029d62@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 6
Germans tend to overdo proper pronunciation of english terms, especially when it comes to names of cities or names, "Koloredo" comes to mind here, so I vote for rather using improper pronunciation in your own tongue instead of false foreign pronunciation. But I think we are getting off topic here....
Michael Schmid Oberammergau Germany
Tel.: +49 8821 798790 Fax.:+49 8821 798791 mail: schmid@zunterer.com http://www.zunterer.com
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] Im Auftrag von Kurt Sperry Gesendet: Donnerstag, 25. September 2008 20:56 An: Jack Fortune Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Betreff: Re: [CR]Alex Singer, correction pronounciation
> What would be the correct "English way" to pronounce Cinelli?
>
> regards,
>
> Jack Fortune
> Eugene, Oregon USA
I've gotten "nice Sinelli!" a few times.
I think one should if capable try to emulate native pronunciations. Americans are generally sufficiently insular as it stands.
Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA _______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:48:28 +0100 From: Patricia Killiard <pk219@cam.ac.uk> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]eBay outing - item numbers Message-ID: <48DCBDFC.5040900@cam.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 7
Below are the item numbers of the components I listed on 25th September as being on eBay - finishing on Sunday 28th
Sturmey ASC - 140269799002 Blumfield D/F Hub - 140269801809 Simplex 3-speed gear - 140269803701 Raleigh RRA forks - 140269807406 Rare British Front hub - 140269811148
Patricia Killiard Cambridge, UK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 08:03:02 -0400 From: "Dr. Paul Williams" <castell5@sympatico.ca> To: "Classic Rendezvous" <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Hope from a new generation!? Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP702CF992AB7BC98F13B60E4470@phx.gbl> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 8
The other day I was sitting outside our building at the university having a coffee with a colleague when a student pulled into a nearby bike rack on a vintage Peugeot. As I looked over my colleague's shoulder he asked if I was checking out her form - I laughed and said no and that she was one of my students from a first-year seminar and that I was most curious about her bike. I was also amazed by the fact that she was wearing a matching Peugeot team jersey. I didn't have a chance to look at the bike closely so will have to ask her in more detail about it next week - in a later exchange of emails about an assignment she did say that:
"My Dad gave me that bike a few years ago, after he upgraded to a Trek or Giant or some other light-weight contraption! He bought it in Germany in 1980. We haven't done too much to it - new brakes and Shimano pedals - but it still runs very well."
I am not sure of the model but the frame was in black and yellow livery (as was her jersey).
There is hope (this student is about 18 or 19) - and not just from the fixie brigade!
Paul Williams,
Paul B. Williams, BAH, MPhil, PhD Ottawa, Ontario, Canada castell5@sympatico.ca
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:19:09 +0100 From: "Peter Brown" <peterg.brown@ntlworld.com> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]JRJ (pre Bob Jackson) transfers Message-ID: <001301c91fd2$151041f0$020fa8c0@nonefpfvwek4mv> Content-Type: text/plain;charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Message: 9
I have recently acquired two JRJ frames, which was the name used before they became Bob Jackson of Leeds. One is a 1953 road/path frame, and the other is a 1952 track frame built for, but not used at, the 1952 Olympics in Helsinki. Both have been handpainted over the original finish and transfers and need to be restored to original. The problem is with transfers, and particularly the headbadge transfer which it seems I shall have to reproduce. Does any list member have a JRJ frame with original transfer from which they would be willing to take traces, dimensions, and photographs please? Bob Jacksons and Nick Tithecott of Lloyds Cycles have both been asked and are unable to help.
Peter Brown, Lincolnshire, England
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 15:14:40 +0200 From: Amir Avitzur <avitzur@013.net> To: Classicrendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Sanjay Message-ID: <JJEEKLDDELHGFDGDBELBCEGGGJAA.avitzur@013.net.il> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Precedence: list Message: 10
Why a Hungarian living in France would take on a Hindi name is beyond me.
Amir Avitzur R"G, Israel
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:31:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Norris Lockley <norris.lockley@yahoo.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]BESPOKE frame on UK Ebay Message-ID: <20045.40843.qm@web44910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: norris.lockley@yahoo.com Message: 11
Yesterday I unashamedly promoted the Bespoke TT frame that a UK seller has
put up for sale - Item No 250298247640.
Later I recalled that the present owner had contacted me a couple of years
ago about the frame to ask if I had any background to it and to check out t he provenance given by the chap selling it to him.
he also sent me a set of jpegs. These I have added to my Flickr gallery, ju st in case any ome is interested in having a closer look - the Ebay pict ures being a litle dark.
I can confirm that the frame is No 05281 - meaning that it was finished on
the 5 February 1981. The spec form I have shows that it is a 23 " (centr e of BB to top of seat lug) with a 22.5" (C-C) top tube. Angles are 73.5//, making it a well balanced machine. There is a photo of the bike built u p with Campag record equipment.
Photos at:-www.flickr.com/photos/cyclecrank/ The 10 photos appear on the le ad page.
Hope someone is interested in this lovely frame.
Norris Lockley, Settle UK
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:06:34 -0500 From: Ken Wehrenberg <wnwires@htc.net> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Chain for Legnano Message-ID: <9E9B5CD6-C5DA-46CB-8D58-88FA6BD79787@htc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 12
Jerry Moos said;
"The usual solution to this, as seen on my 1968 Tipo Roma, was that Legano tapped a hole into the back of the seatube near its top to mount a special brake hanger curved to match the tube curvature and secured to the tube by a bolt run through a hole in the hanger and threaded into the hole tappe d into the tube."
I have a 1961 Legnano in the same color scheme as the bike in question. Mine did not have a tapped hole. Instead it had a clamp- on stop about the seat post for the cable stop. With age, I wanted something a bit more secure so I replaced it with an almost identical piece: I called Joe Breeze when his Hite-Rite seatpost adjuster for MTBs came out as the mechanism by which it was held together was a very close dead ringer to the original Legnano part.
Ken Wehrenberg, Hermann, MO
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:25:19 -0400 From: "Norm and Val Lafleur" <nvlafleur@verizon.net> To: "Ken Wehrenberg" <wnwires@htc.net>, <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: Re: [CR]Chain for Legnano Message-ID: <D7B0F4E61C464055A95AEAB1EC7C7216@LAFLEUR> References: <9E9B5CD6-C5DA-46CB-8D58-88FA6BD79787@htc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=response MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 13
OK I'll add my 2 cents to this. The tapped hole is actually a brazed on bos s tapped through the seat tube. I suspect that this was added when the Universal Mod 61's became available. Prior to that it is likely that the Universal side pulls were used. So if a Legnano has the front mounted binde r bolt and is missing the CP braze on, it is probably from the 50's. Not an expert but an informed guess???
Norm Lafleur
Ashfield, Massachusetts
USA
> Jerry Moos said;
>
> "The usual solution to this, as seen on my 1968 Tipo Roma, was that
> Legano
> tapped a hole into the back of the seatube near its top to mount a
> special
> brake hanger curved to match the tube curvature and secured to the tube
> by
> a bolt run through a hole in the hanger and threaded into the hole tapp
e
> d into the tube."
>
> I have a 1961 Legnano in the same color scheme as the bike in question.
> Mine did not have a tapped hole. Instead it had a clamp- on stop about
> the seat post for the cable stop. With age, I wanted something a bit
> more secure so I replaced it with an almost identical piece: I called Jo
e
> Breeze when his Hite-Rite seatpost adjuster for MTBs came out as the
> mechanism by which it was held together was a very close dead ringer to
> the original Legnano part.
>
> Ken Wehrenberg, Hermann, MO
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 07:40:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Tom Dalton <tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com> To: Classic Rendezvous <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org> Subject: [CR]Sixteen dollar magazines!!!! Message-ID: <589013.72549.qm@web55904.mail.re3.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Precedence: list Reply-To: tom_s_dalton@yahoo.com Message: 14
You have to hand it to Rapha. All in one stroke they lay claim to what i s pure and old school, promise to deliver an experience reminiscent of cycling's "drug-free" glory days and then offer products that are so shoc kingly expensive that they one up all competitors in contemporary cycling's sad race to make the sport ever-more exclusive. Rapha will do wha t's profitable, but I find the whole thing pretty nauseating. Cotton cyc ling caps are old school to the point of being useless, since we all wear h elmets now, but $45 cotton cycling caps just insult our collective intellig ence. These hats are, however, just the right thing to sport down at the coffee shop if you want to out cool all the fat guys in $319 Assos bibs by kicking it old school in order to reject all the evil they represent. Rapha stuff is especially helpful for building classic cred when you weren ¢t actually riding three years ago, let alone in those glory days that Ra pha is now exploiting, but who knows, maybe you can buy authenticity.
Tom Dalton Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, USA
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:30:27 EDT From: SKlebold@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: [CR]Re: Chain for Legnano, but really about the Rear Brake Message-ID: <d4c.300c65b8.360e5a13@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 15
First, thanks to everyone from the list for the replies on my chain question.
Aldo and Jerry immediately noticed the rear brake mismatch, and until yesterday I had not really given it much thought (although I have owned it for over 20 years, the Legnano is my only vintage bicycle, and I generally only ride
it a couple of times each year).
>>I've always sort of assumed that Legnano would have drilled all the fram
es,
which would have allowed more flexibility in fitting brakes, at least as
long as one could still obtain the special rear hanger from Legnano when
switching from SP to CP. Shaun, can you tell us if there is a threaded ho
le in the
back of the seatube, perhaps covered up by the seat collar?<<
There is not a threaded hole or boss on the rear of the seat tube; here is
a
link to a photo of the rear brake set-up: http://tinyurl.com/
So, with the Olmo collar, it sure seems that the rear brake was changed later sometime. The condition of the hardware (you can't really see in the
photos) is consistent with the rest of the bicycle parts, so perhaps it was
changed out early in the life of the bicycle.
I like the centerpull; it's easier for me to set up, and seems to give better braking power than the sidepull. Not that I go out and really test it much. Maybe the first owner swapped it out for this? And if so, why not swap out the front as well?
Nonetheless, I will be shopping for a match with the front, another Universal Extra SP.
Regards, Shaun Klebold Auburn, Washington, USA
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:30:47 EDT From: Stronglight49@aol.com To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Hope from a new generation!? Message-ID: <ccd.42ab6270.360e5a27@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Precedence: list Message: 16
Another glimmer of hope was a comment from the manager of a local bike shop who mentioned that recently many younger cyclists have become fascinated with fancy lugs - in fact ANY lugged bikes have suddenly become peculiarly attractive to a younger generation who may have grown up seeing and owning only TIG welded frames.
BOB HANSON, ALBUQUERQUE, NEW MEXICO, USA
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End of Classicrendezvous Digest, Vol 69, Issue 85 *************************************************