Hi Alex:
I was trying to give what has been a largely theoretical exchange into more concrete terms-specifically, I was asking you to quantitate the value (in dollars) of what some (including you) would call "patina" but I call damage. As a bicycle dealer and user of this terminology, I thought you would be more than willing to provide this information, and, I am hoping you will still do so.
It appears that the use of terminology (i.e. patina, conservation, restoration, etc.), borrowed from the art and antique fields, is used incorrectly by some vintage bicycle dealers and collectors. The users of this terminology are very careful never to define what they mean save perhaps in a situational manner.
When Alex provides us with prices for bikes with varying degrees of patina, lovers of art lingo (and patina in particular) will be shocked to find that the less patina his bikes have the more expensive they are-and I mean very much more expensive. The more patina they have the less they are worth. Furthermore, approach any seasoned bike dealer or collector with a rusty corroded and damaged bike and tell him that you are expecting a very high price for your well patinated bike-the answer won't be printable here.
What about other art lingo words, such as "restoration", "conservation," etc.? These are also euphemisms for what are really repairs (i.e. repainting, rechroming, etc.) taken from the art and antique world. In vintage bike circles if you are going to buy a bike from some dealers and collectors, you'll find they have had it "conserved," but when you attempt to sell the same bike it's been merely repainted and the price offered will reflect that notion.
Now, in Spain, no one ever likes to refer to have taken the "last" drink at a party, it's always the next to last ("la penultima"). I'm hoping that Alex and others will continue to contribute to this interesting conversation.
George
George Hollenberg MD
CT, USA