Re: [CR] The Monthly "ID This Italian Mystery Machine" Challenge.

(Example: Framebuilders:Norman Taylor)

Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:51:41 +0100
From: "Hilary Stone" <hilary.stone@blueyonder.co.uk>
To: devotion finesse <devotion_finesse@hotmail.com>
References: <COL113-W83E49D1991B3F2474E748F56F0@phx.gbl>
In-Reply-To:
Cc: CR discussion list <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] The Monthly "ID This Italian Mystery Machine" Challenge.


I think this frame is a lower tier Viner - take a look at this cyclocross Viner I sold a couple of years ago which was built from Falck tubing - which typically takes a 26.8mm seatpost...

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/hilarystone/Viner-cross-details.jpg

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r77/hilarystone/Viner-cross.jpg

I have had another Viner with Campy long dropouts which was a bit earlier and that shared many of the same details with the cross frame and yours...

Its easy to forget with our preccupation with the best of the best that many Italian builders also built lower tier frames - a few weeks ago I received a Colnago from Italy - it appears to be from 1973/4 - the fork is just a like a Super from the period and is built from Columbus tubing. But the frame is different - the long Campy dropouts are not filed with square edges and there are no lug cutouts at all. But the bottom bracket shell has the standard Colnago Club cutout and it takes a 27.2mm seatpost. However the seatstay eyes are not concave and the lugs are slightly clumsily brazed - at present I think this is a lower tier Colnago built for the home market...

Hilary Stone, Bristol, British Isles

devotion finesse wrote:
> Gang,A few weeks back, I posted a query regarding the approximate age of what (based on decals) I believed to be a Viner. The more carefully I examined the bike, the less consistent the build details seemed to be with other Viners I have seen...I am starting to thgink that the only thing "Viner" about is is the decals...and perhaps the shade of blue chosen for the bike at the time of re-paint*. First off, the frame does not feature the usual star cutouts anywhere. Also, the fork seems to be a replacement for a number of reasons: The rear brake mount is standard nutted mount while the fork is recessed. The steerer tube is VERY short (and fitted with a Hatta Vesta headset). There is no Viner logo/cutouts on the crown. No star on the BB. *The fork and frame have matching paint, leading me to believe that the frame might have been re-painted at the time of fork replacement as well. Other build details worth mentioning: - 120mm rear spacing- braze-ons for shifter bosses
  and bottle cage and rear brake cable housing- Campagnolo short 1010 dropouts with Porta Cana holes- 26.8 seatpost (a Reynolds 531 sticker. Does this seem right? I have never seen a Viner that wasn't Columbus and am unsure about what said seatpost size could indicate.) - over BB cable routingPlease have a look at the new detail pictures I have posted on my Wool Jersey page and lemme know what y'all think this frame could be. http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/Devotion/Mystery_Machine/<http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/Devotion/Mystery_Machine/>The jury is out! I'm waiting for the verdict!Matthew BowneBrooklyn, New York