Re: [CR] Help with 531 decal on 1970 Schwinn Paramount

(Example: Framebuilders:Alex Singer)

Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:38:20 -0700
From: Jerome & Elizabeth Moos <jerrymoos@sbcglobal.net>
To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>, <edvintage63@aol.com>
In-Reply-To: <8CC19B5D9FB975E-13C4-494@webmail-m084.sysops.aol.com>
Subject: Re: [CR] Help with 531 decal on 1970 Schwinn Paramount


Ah, well this becomes more confusing. Note on the CR site there are least three "generations" of 531 decals, even between 1960 and the end of the CR OT timeline.

http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Reynolds_gallery.htm

The first is the old-style smaller decal, with only one section, stating only the product name Reynolds 531 and the what tubes were 531 and what tubes butted. No panel giving the name of the company or its location.

Next, a panel is added at the bottom with Reynolds Tube Co. Ltd, Birmingham, England. My past experience restoring Raleighs, and also in having some French-language 531 decals reproduced, is that the "Reynolds Tube Co." decals first appeared around 1974. Oddly, they don't refer to TI (Tubing Investments) even though TI had long owned Reynolds by 1974.

Finally, at least for the CR timeline, The panel is changed to include the logo of TI and perhaps refer to "TI Reynolds". This seems to have been about 1976 or 1977. It's hard to pin down exact years, not only because bike manufacturers would use up old stock before switching, but also because Raleigh, being owned by TI, might get a new style a year or two before anyone else. It's also known that Schwinn, Jack Taylor and Bates had special versions of the 531 decals.

Now The CR site shows a "Schiwnn" version with horizonal "531" flanked by stars, with revised wording. But it is old-style with no panel. If such an old-style Schwinn version existed, it should have been before 1974. Yet lots of early 70's Paramounts have the "normal" decal with the diagonal "531". I have somehow managed to accumulate three additional early 70's all-chrome Paramounts besides the 1970 touring model. All are racing models, a 71, a 72 and a 73. The 71 and 72 both have 'normal" diagonal old style decals which I'm almost sure are original. The 1973, for which I am less confident of the originality of the decals, has a "normal" diagonal decal with the Reynolds Tube Co. panel.

As a result of this thread, is it pretty clear the Schwinn version TI decal supplied by Waterford is too new for the 1970 Paramount, and that an old-style with no panel below is needed. What is not clear is whether it should be the "Schwinn" version or the "normal" version. A couple of CR members have indicted they may have a repro Schwinn version for me, so I may go with that.

BTW, someone mentioned that they thought the "Schwinn" version appeared in the classic Sloane book. So did I, but I cannot find it there. However, it is fascinating to read the caption below the various 531 decals pictured on page 66 of the original edition:

"Any bicycle made with any grade of Reynolds 531 is better than one made with any other kind of tubing."

Pretty clearly untrue, and indeed Sloane even contradicts himself at the end of the same paragraph when he says: "Please note that Columbus tubing, used on some Italian bicycles, is comparable to Reynolds."

We sometimes forget that Sloane, prior to writing "The Complete Book of Bicycling", was not really an expert. He was not an engineer, framebuilder, ex-racer or bike shop owner or mechanic, but rather a guy from Sales and PR who had become enthused about cycling. Rather remarkable that he had the nerve to write the book, and even more remarkable he did such a good job of it, a few statements like the above notwithstanding. But I think he fit the times in America. In 1970 most Americans thought an "English Racer" was actually used for racing, and the mysterious thing called a derailleur shown on the Varsity in the Schwinn catalogs had us scratching our heads as to how such a thing worked. Even though there were many guys way more technically qualified, Sloane's non-expert, but enthusiatic, tone was exactly what was needed to open the world of quality lightweight bicycles to the broad American audience. I sometimes wonder if the book was sold in UK, and if so, what British readers thought of it. For the more knowledgeable UK audience perhaps it seemed simplistic and naive, making a great to do about things which to them seemed obvious.

Regards,

Jerry Moos
big Spring, Texas, USA


--- On Mon, 10/12/09, edvintage63@aol.com wrote:


> From: edvintage63@aol.com <edvintage63@aol.com>

\r?\n> Subject: [CR] Help with 531 decal on 1970 Schwinn Paramount (Ed Granger)

\r?\n> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org

\r?\n> Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 7:47 PM

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Jerry,

\r?\n>

\r?\n> I've researched this a bit before, and did so a bit again

\r?\n> following your query. I'm pretty sure the "special" decal

\r?\n> used on many Schwinns (and also Raleighs) with the stars was

\r?\n> not yet in use in 1970. So I concur with your sense that the

\r?\n> "Ti" bit is inappropriate, but I also believe the "stars"

\r?\n> and horizontal "531" are wrong as well (and hence trimming

\r?\n> the decal may not solve your issue).

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Ed Granger

\r?\n> Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Quote:_____________________________________________________________________________

\r?\n> The 531 decal is the version used by Schwinn, and

\r?\n> occasionally perhaps a couple

\r?\n> of other builders, with the "531" horizonal and flanked by

\r?\n> stars, and the

\r?\n> wording revised to make it clearer that only the maintubes,

\r?\n> not the forks and

\r?\n> stays, are butted.  Rather obvious, but evidently

\r?\n> needed to satisfy Schwinn's

\r?\n> lawyers.  This version is included here on the CR

\r?\n> site:

\r?\n>

\r?\n> http://www.classicrendezvous.com/British_isles/Reynolds_gallery.htm

\r?\n>

\r?\n> HOWEVER, the 531 decal supplied also has the panel on the

\r?\n> bottom referring to TI

\r?\n> Reynolds, which I thought did not appear until the mid/late

\r?\n> 70's.  Am I correct

\r?\n> about this?  Waterford is trying to cover several

\r?\n> years of similar Paramount

\r?\n> graphics here, and perhaps this decal would be correct for

\r?\n> mid 70's Paramounts

\r?\n> with otherwise similar decals, but I'm thinking the TI

\r?\n> Reynolds panel should not

\r?\n> be on a 1970.  It looks like the TI panel could be

\r?\n> trimmed off leaving the

\r?\n> remainder more or less the correct shape for the earlier

\r?\n> Schwinn version of the

\r?\n> 531 decal.  I'm inclined to do that unless advised

\r?\n> otherwise.  Opinions?

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Regards,

\r?\n>

\r?\n> Jerry Moos

\r?\n> Big Spring, Texas, USA