JB,
Don't let that chatter trouble you in the least. If this were my size, I'd buy the frame post-haste. It is from a significant point in cycling history, back when french riders and teams actually rode in and won events on french-built bikes. The (off-topic) social values of today have no bearing upon a bike frame built more than 40 years ago, and IMO should have never been broached in this forum.
Dale Phelps
Montagna lunga Colorado USA
From: billydavid13@comcast.net <billydavid13@comcast.net> Subject: Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes To: "jaouen BAZIN" <jaouenbazin@free.fr> Cc: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 6:26 PM
Bon Soir Jaouen Bazin. I don't think you should end the auction. You are offering a bike which you did not design the decals for - that is a matter of history. I can understand that some people might find the emblem insensitive or worse. But it is hard to believe that anyone can seriously hold that this decal materially oppresses people of African [recent] extraction. There is horrible racism of all sorts in the world. In your country [France] as in mine [USA] i would argue, were this an appropriate forum, there is much specifically anti black prejudice. It is not my place to argue the intent of the decal 50 yrs ago. Racist? Patronizing? Paternalistic? Insensitive? If one feels embarassed or opposed to the symbol one should not bid on the bike. If one acquires the bike they should be prepared to explain and/ or justify its origin. Actual racism is rarely so blatant. Good luck w/ your auction. Billy Ketchum; Chicago, IL; E.E.U.U. [i think].
CR list, i'm suprised about this bebate, i sold vintage items, and no in my mind to send an other message than passion for vintage bicycle. Sauvage Lejeune won tour de France in 1968 with Jan Jansen and i don't think it was symbolique day for racisme. I can understand, today, this logo can be hurt people's, but as i reply at don, if Lejeune brother's was racist they don't put French flag underpant at the "papoo" it will be indescent for racist. and they are not a second message on logo. BTW if CR list think is indescent, and is a bad image for our favorite sport, to sell this frame i immidiatly close the auction. Regards jaouen BAZIN Wissous, France
-----Message d'origine----- De : Jon M. Crate [mailto:Jon.Crate@FAI.US] Envoye : vendredi 20 novembre 2009 01:33 A : 'jaouen BAZIN'; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Objet : RE: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes
Jaouen, I was convinced when I saw it last week that regardless of the history behind the bike, the fear of a racist appearance would prevent it from selling for a good price.
Likewise, I anticipated that some racist might snap it up!
If you can't find anyone to buy it, I'll pay a nominal amount for it and cover the cost shipping it here and I'll strip it, repaint it and ride it!
Jon Crate Marietta in the Old South Georgia
-----Original Message----- From: classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org [mailto:classicrendezvous-bounces@bikelist.org] On Behalf Of jaouen BAZIN Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 6:58 PM To: donald gillies; classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Subject: Re: [CR] Racist (not Racing) Bikes
Hello Don, for the story, Lejeune brother come back to africa (wich year i don't known probably 50's) and fall in love about africa country. They decide about they're trip to call the race frame Sauvage-Lejeune, "sauvage" is french word for "wild". This frame date probably 1960, 50years before the "cliche" from africa was "papou", i think it's not racist but supide "cliche" from 50 years old Regards Jaouen BAZIN Wissous, France
(actualy i'm the seller of the frame and if i think is racist i do not sold this bike)