Jan, it is interesting to think about general guidelines as you have, but I think Brian's point is that every restoration is different due to the complexity of the task, the vintage and origin of the original, and the goals of the customer. I think it's complex enough that not even a standard set of questions would suffice, and it would be better to simply leave it to the expert restorer to gather the information necessary to satisfy his customer. To establish arbitrary guidelines (a "standard") assumes there is a critical problem that can't be addressed to satisfaction with the existing situation, that one understands the matter well enough to create a plausible standard, and that an adequate board of peers and stakeholder is engaged to provide the reviews that could make it a standard, rather than one opinion. I think you'd have to a well-seasoned practitioner of restoration (think Joe Bell, Brian himself, or Matt Assenmacher) to have enough perspective to recognize that a problem exists that must be solved.
I write ISO standards in the automotive environment, and this issue of deciding which proposals are suitable as standard is the meat of the problem.
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Jan Heine <heine94@earthlink.net> wrote:
> What I'm trying to get at here is that there are too many "standards" out
>> there that make it really difficult to meet the expectations of everyone.
>>
>
> I think Brian makes a good point. Restoration customers must do their own
> research, and tell the restorer/painter exactly how they want it done. And
> ideally, the restorer/painter would ask lots of questions. These include on
> a hypothetical Cinelli restoration:
>
> - Lug masking: Should the edges of the lugs remain in chrome, or painted,
> so that only the top surfaces of the lugs remain chrome?
> - Decal placement. Which decals, where? (This includes the tubing
> stickers.) Which decals go above and which below the clear coat?
> - Filling of filemarks, etc. Yes/no?
> - Paint thickness: Is ultimate gloss the goal, or something approaching the
> factory paint job?
> - Glossiness of the clear. How shiny? By the way, some fine steel wool will
> easily remove the excess gloss.
>
> I am sure there are many more. Perhaps we can draw up a list, to guide
> future restoration customers.
>
> Beyond that, make sure your frame is original before you start. Are all the
> braze-ons correct? Bridges in the right places (I have seen a few Cinellis
> that had their bridges moved to use 1970s Campagnolo brakes.) If frame work
> is needed, again, be specific where exactly the bridges should go, and what
> they should look like.
>
> In the car world, all that research is the restorer's job, but you pay for
> it. If a Cinelli frame restoration costs only a little over $ 1000, you
> cannot really expect the restorer to spend too much time on the details and
> research.
>
> With clear communication, the results can be what you expect. When I had
> three frames repainted a few years back, I went with a high-end car
> restoration painter, who was local. We talked about what I wanted. As I had
> some bikes in town for a photo shoot, I was even able to bring him a few
> bikes from the same maker as references. I stopped by several times during
> the process to make sure everything was going well. Apart from a minor
> glitch (see lug masking above), which was fixed quickly with some touch-up,
> it worked very smoothly.
>
> If you go with a bike restorer, you have a head-start, as they know how to
> paint bikes. (Spaceframes of racing cars aren't that different, though!) You
> still have to make sure that they understand your expectations.
>
> The first time I had a bike repainted, many years ago, I told the expert
> restorer: "I want it like it was originally." It was a 1957 Cinelli. I was
> young, inexperienced, and when I got the frame back, I was a bit surprised.
> It's not bad, but nobody would mistake it for original. I wish I had clearly
> communicated what exactly I wanted.
>
> I also wish I had checked the fork more carefully. Only when assembling the
> bike did I realize somebody had cut off a bit at the bottom and inserted
> 1970s Campagnolo dropouts. The fork offset had decreased from about 45 mm
> (as measured on a 1965 Cinelli in the book "The Competition Bicycle") to
> about 37 mm! Jamie Swan re-raked the fork for me, so at least the bike rides
> like a 1957 Cinelli. (The downslope of the top tube is slight, and almost
> impossible to notice.) Some day, I'll have a new fork made with the old
> crown and steerer, especially if I can find a set of 1957 Campagnolo
> dropouts...
>
> Anyhow, I wish I knew then what I know now. It's still a gorgeous bike, and
> it rides wonderfully, but it could have been a lot better:
>
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com/
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> 2116 Western Ave.
> Seattle WA 98121
> http://www.vintagebicyclepress.com
>
> _______________________________________________
>
--
Ken Freeman
Ann Arbor, MI USA