Re: [CR] Ride Report on early 80's Zunow

(Example: Production Builders:Cinelli)

In-Reply-To: <1237744196.49c67a44a15dd@www.mrrabbit.net>
References: <430e89320903221004r11dc0a07saa2757f107fc61cc@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 11:02:50 -0700
From: "Kurt Sperry" <haxixe@gmail.com>
Cc: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] Ride Report on early 80's Zunow


Understeer and oversteer are terms used in automotive vehicle dynamics to describe one axle or the other having a greater slip angle under lateral accelerations. I'm having trouble imagining how these terms might might apply to a bicycle in real everyday use. Do you have either a specific definition of these terms in mind for bicycles or a way of quantifying or identifying them empirically? For me on a bicycle, rear wheel slide is no big deal but front wheel slide gets exciting real fast.

Kurt Sperry Bellingham, Washington USA

2009/3/22 <mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net>:
> Yeah, I was wondering the same thing...
>
> Sounded like another one of those "waxing eloquent" statements that I jum p on
> people for when it would just be easier to make an effort to provide deta ils
> that are a little more objective - identifiable - observable or comparabl e.
>
> For example...
>
> My Mexican made Benotto 2000 had a laid back Italian geometry with Ishiwa ta 019
> and a steep head angle - yet it rode just like my Japanese made Lotus wit h a
> laid back head angle.  The Lotus had a very long wheelbase but could hi t the
> hills and sprints just like the Benotto 2000.
>
> My Italian made Tommasini has a very laid back geometry - but with a tigh t
> fitting rear wheel and shorter wheelbase - yet it has the same understeer
   my
> Lotus and Benotto had.
>
> My Raliegh Competition from the 80's rode just like my French made Peugeo t 501
> bike from the 80's - but the Peugeot flexed like a noodle.  But the Peu geot
> didn't feel anywhere near as soft and comfortable as an Italian made Beno tto
> 5000SL which also flexed like a noodle.
>
> And my Spanish made Zeus Victoria?  Upright seat tube that tosses and b end you
> over the front - and an agressive head angle makes for a bike that has no
> understeering - "takes corners like it's on rails" like one person said a while
> back...
>
> Do I "wax eloquently" and...
>
> 1.  Attribute a "Mexican, Italian, or a Japanese feel" to the Benotto a nd
> Lotus?
>
> 2.  Dare I attribute a "Japanese feel" to my Tommasini?
>
> 3.  Should I attribute a "Culinary feel" to my Peugeot and the Benotto 5000SL?
>
> 4.  Should I attribute a "Spanish feel" to my Zeus?
>
>
> Personally, I prefer to talk in terms of:
>
> 1. Angles
> 2. Road shock absorption
> 3. Whether you are upright or stretched out.
> 4. Whether there is oversteer or understeer.
> 5. Whether there is stiffness for hill and sprint attacks - or flex for l ong
> flats and comfort.
>
>
> The closest I come to making a "feel" statement regarding my bike is simp ly the
> following:
>
>
> All except the Zeus were road bikes.  However I "felt" the Benotto 2000
   and
> Lotus were more responsive on the hills and in sprints.  My Zeus "feel"
   like a
> criterium bike.
>
>
> At least I can describe the angles and other characteristics that I can " claim"
> support the generalized statement.  Other would still reserve judgement
   for
> themselves for the obvious reason...
>
>
> =8-)
>
> Robert Shackelford
> San Jose, CA USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Nor Meyer <norbikes@gmail.com>:
>
>> * It definitely feels more Italian than French,
>> *
>>
>>
>> >         I'm curious. What exactly duz the above evaluation mea n? Do
>> differant nationalities produce bikes with differant "feel"? A little mo re
>> explication, please.
>>          Thanx!
>>
>>          Nor Meyer, in Mt. Vernon, IA
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
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