Mike and all,
I think it is entirely possible for a regional or national "culture" of bike design to co-exist alongside noticeable and sometimes vociferous disagreements between individual designers/builders within that culture. Homogeneity is not the same as sharing "cultural" traits, and I never intended to slight the importance of individuality and personality in cycling. But every individual and every company lives in a cultural context. "Similar" does not equal "same."
Masi, Colnago, Benotto, Pinarello, et al, will clearly ride, feel, and look very differently compared to each other, even though all of them may still share certain "cultural" traits due to their locations, common language, similar sources for materials or workers, etc.
Likewise for Gitane, Motobecane, Bertin, Peugeot, Follis, etc. (Can you imagine any two cyclists agreeing on everything they discussed? I can't, either... :-)
If there is an "American" frame builder's "design culture," I think it may start with a passion for precision, performance, fine finishing, and innovation. I'd be interested in hearing from others on this list how they might identify the characteristics shared by USA builders and their bikes.
Jon Spangler Alameda, CA USA
On Mar 23, 2009, at 12:49 PM, <classicrendezvous-
request@bikelist.org> <classicrendezvous-request@bikelist.org> wrote:
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 12:33:55 -0700
> From: <emeneff@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Re: [CR] French vs. Italian vs. English ones . . .
> To: <classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Message-ID: <CAF48344F2E8481483047B50697D72FF@D7FBDM41>
> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
> reply-type=original
>
> Please take the following in a somewhat tongue-in-cheek manner . . .
>
<snip>
>
> Bottom Line - after being around bikes for well over thirty years,
> I just
> don't believe in alleged national "traits" amongst bicycle design. I
> remember learning in college that myths and stereotypes are most
> useful for
> influencing and controlling the simplistic and ignorant.
>
> I'd love to see ANYONE try and gather any three (heck, even two)
> Italian, or
> French, or English, (or WHATEVER nationality) framebuilders
> together and see
> if they could get them to agree on much of ANYTHING regarding
> design or
> construction. What a laugh !
>
> Like trying to herd cats !
>
> For an even bigger laugh ask those builders about some of the
> designs they
> built twenty or thirty years ago. Framebuilders can get easily
> annoyed by
> those with long memories. Bike design goes through cycles and is
> highly
> influenced by fashion swings just as much as any other aspect of
> the bike
> world. What seemed completely "rational" and obvious in one era
> looks mighty
> foolish, dated, and ill-conceived just ten years later. The nebulous
> "classic bike design" is MUCH more fluid than is often realized.
> "Design"
> oftentimes just follows whatever and wherever the market seems to
> be moving.
> And it very rarely EVER (IMHO) has roots in some sort of nationalistic
> outlook or experience, other than everyone tends to copy a little
> from those
> they learned from.
>
> Like people, it is best to speak of a specific bicycle and it's
> measures,
> and your subjective feelings about its specific behaviors, instead
> of trying
> to imply that similiar bikes from a geographic region will display
> those
> same traits, especially over a period of time.
>
> Having said that, I think I'll take the English "Path" design,
> Guv'nor.
> I'll die a tired but happy rider, with a smile on his face <G>
>
> Wink-wink-nudge-nudge,
> Mike Fabian
> San Francisco, CA, USA
>
>
>
Jon Spangler
Writer/Editor
Linda Hudson Writing
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