Speaking of tubulars - my mid-70s Raleigh Pro Mark IV came with AVA rims. I was told later that they weren't the best, but they certainly held up well enough during my brief (sanctioned) racing career in late 1970s and ended-up gracing my wife's Colnago which she rode regularly (and often hard) up until about 1990. Last time I checked, those wheels were STILL true! I never had much luck with cheap tubulars until I bought my OT Servizio Corse from the Yellow Jersey last year. I had my best luck with higher-priced Vittoria (setas) and later on Contis. Steve Whitting
"The Ciocc Cat"
Prairieville, Louisiana USA
Website at http://ciocc-cat.angelfire.com/
From: barrie carter <barriemgracer@yahoo.co.uk> Subject: Re: [CR] 700c Time-Line To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Date: Monday, March 8, 2010, 3:31 PM
Norris, I dont where you rode your bike, but there was no way a tub could fit a pressure rim, gloe or not, it would have bust in the first 19 feet. sprint wheels were all the same configuration, a shallow depression in an alluminium rim. The best rim and the most expensive wa the Mavic, a stronger rim that had nipple ferules to avoid pulling the spokes through. Fiamme was the next choice, virtually the same and cheaper. Nisi was next but didnt have the ferulre so the spokes pulled through the rim. NOONE as far as I ever saw used or even heard of Ava or Mephisto and as for tubs, Wolber were avoided like the plauge as being worse that pressures and cannetti were another no no. Delassandro Dunlop no 2 Clement, not the elvetia, and DeDoigfne were the ones used. It would appear you never raced in the BLRC nor knew what tubs were right to use. Sorry, but missimformation annoys me. History is based on fact not supposition. Barrie CarterRoundham UK
________________________________ From: Norris Lockley <nlockley73@googlemail.com> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org Sent: Mon, 8 March, 2010 0:20:16 Subject: [CR] 700c Time-Line
Perhaps we were all very naive back in the late 40s and early 50..and through to the 60s...some of us.
I recall that most of my riding ..and frame-building..was done on and for 27 inch wheels for which the tyre of choice was the 27 x 1.25 - approximately 28 to 32 mm in width, with the Dunlop Sprite being one of the favourites, followed by the John Bull Safety Speed with its laterally-ribbed tread for touring. Palmer Tyres were popular too. For a faster tyre then you had to choose the Dunlop Special Road Racing ( I think that was the name ) with its narrower profile and file-tooth tread. Rims were nearly always alloy Constrictor, or KPs or Alumlites..or Dunlop Stainless -steel ones.
As for tubular wheels I dont remember us calling them 28inch ones, as we knew that they would not fit onto our HP-high-pressure rims in any case, as they needed gluing. Sprint/tubular rims were almost always FIAMME, sometimes AVA or MEPHISTO. Tubulars were Constrictor (if you could afford them ) or WOLBER, or D'Alessandro, Canetti, Dunlop. Wolber were always popular, particularly the big balloon type ones with the figure- of -eight tread pattern made of red rubber.
700c HP (clincher rims) did not make too big an impact, as I recall, until sometime in the mid-to-late 70s, coinciding with the influx of Peugeot, Motobecane, Lejeune bikes. At first many of these were Anglicised ie equipped in the factory with 27 inch wheels for the UK market..but then , when well established on the UK market, the makers just sent over the standard 700c -equipped machines. However I remember that well into the 80s I was receiving orders for touring frames, in particular, and some club frames with 27inch wheels. Eventually it was the shortage of good rims in the 27 dimension, particularly with 40 holes and the lack of availability of good tyres, that reluctant English riders finally adopted the 700c wheel and tyre combination and..the 36 hole hubs.
It should be remembered also that until possibly into the 1970s, it was quite normal practice to build frames up to about 21 inch to use 26 inch wheels. Sprint rims could also be found in this size if you knew where to get them.
Norris Lockley
Settle UK.