Re: [CR] Frame stiffness NOW Frames Getting Soft and 753

(Example: Framebuilding:Brazing Technique)

From: "Andrew R Stewart" <>
To: "paccoastcycles" <>, "Jim Merz" <>, "Angel Garcia" <>
References: <> <87DF243CE43143E68614A3D282FA5F95@laptop2> <> <> <> <> <24F58F28F0714B16BBC1FDF845EE8398@ownerd556865ac>
In-Reply-To: <24F58F28F0714B16BBC1FDF845EE8398@ownerd556865ac>
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 00:34:18 -0400
Subject: Re: [CR] Frame stiffness NOW Frames Getting Soft and 753

Chuck makes a good point. For all the engineering that goes into a bike it still has to be sold (and mass enough produced and distributed). Since the story of how your product is different then the other guy's is the ad, how it plays out in real life is not the issue.

Back in the late 1970s I tried to explain to customers how "resiliency" was the goal of a fine frame. How a bike could ride "better" if it flexed and moved with the rider. Today if you can't say "stiffness" at least 11 times in the ad you're not in the race.

----- Original Message -----
From: paccoastcycles
To: Jim Merz
Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 12:05 AM
Subject: Re: [CR] Frame stiffness NOW Frames Getting Soft and 753

>I find this stuff very interesting, Jim. For me, one of the most
>interesting factors is not the actual engineering but instead, the response
>of the buying public to marketing and a concept that I call "Marketing
>Driven Folklore".
> During the 80's a customer told me he had been told by a salesman that the
> higher model Bianchi frame was stiffer than the next model down from it.
> The higher model was double butted Columbus and the model below it was
> straight guage Columbus; both bikes being of identical geometry, the grade
> of tubing being the only difference. Marketing Driven Folklore.
> "Stiffness" was the marketing buzz word for so much of my career, it makes
> me cringe. There was a spell when I had more than one person tell me that
> a Vitus frame was just so flexy that they just couldn't possibly ride one,
> even though their ride was down the Coast Highway for a cup of coffee.
> Meanwhile, Sean Kelly was winning Tour de France stages on a Vitus.
> At the end of the day, we have facts, but for the first twenty three hours
> and fifty nine minutes, we have Marketing. Somehow, I find the
> relationship between facts and marketing interesting.
> Chuck Hoefer
> Pacific Coast Cycles
> Oceanside, Calif.

Andrew R Stewart
Rochester, NY