Dear Chas, Many thanks for confirming that the frame is a Bertin. It looks very similar to the one in the link that you added to your email. I'll need to track down someone that sells the decal sets.
When I get the frame, I check for traces of the original color in the BB, or head tube. If you look a the RD cable stop on the red bike, it is the same. It seems that they started to braze them onto the underside a little later on.
I'll check the tubing out when I strip the paint. I know that Reynolds had marks on their tubes, but I am not sure about Vitus.
I just hope the frame is straight and in good condition...
Great background info and I appreciate your help very much.
Kind regards, Peter Rogers
Barrie, Ontario, Canada
--------------------------------------------------
From: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:51 PM
To: "Peter Rogers" <pjrogers@rogers.com>; <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames
> Peter,
>
> It's definitely a Bertin frame, most likely an early 80s model C37 which
> was their "professional" model for many years. It could also be a C70 or
> similar top of the line performance model.
>
> The 16mm seat stays with flat oval brazed-on caps was one of their
> hallmarks. The fish mouthed fork and rear stay ends were another. Long
> point Bocama lugs with the stamped V cutouts were used on this model from
> the mid 70s through the early 80s.
>
> The dropouts may be Campy or Milremo - which were made by one of the
> companies that made them for Campagnolo. The fork crown is an investment
> cast Vitus Arcor style.
>
> The standard C37 frames were made with Reynolds 531 tubing with .7mm/1.0mm
> wall thickness butted main tubes. The lighter C37bis used Super Vitus 971
> tubing which had .6/.9mm wall thickness main tubes - the same dimensions
> as Columbus SL tubing.
>
> My 1980 C37bis has Super Vitus 971 stickers but the main tubes are made of
> lighter Super Vitus 980.
>
> If you strip it for repainting, you'll probably be able to see what kind
> of tubing it's made of.
>
> These frames had around a ~100cm wheelbase with 72° to 73° angles which
> made for a classic French road racing ride - responsive but comfortable.
>
> The decals probably looked like these:
>
> http://tinyurl.com/
>
> Bertin had some catalog standard bikes but many if not most were built to
> order (in quantity). C37 was the frame model not necessarily the bike
> model. I've seen them from the 60s and early 70s equipped with everything
> from Huret Allvit derailleurs to full Campy!
>
> We were able to specify frame sizes, geometry (racing or touring), tubing
> (to some degree), and components (to some degree) but not colors or
> decals.
>
> Bertin was the French importer and distributor for Shimano and your frame
> looks like it has an alloy Shimano headset. It was not uncommon to see an
> all Shimano Bertin.
>
> We marketed the Bertins we imported as "all French". Bertin couldn't
> understand why we didn't want them equipped all Shimano!
>
> French production bikes were built to ride, not look at! ;-)
>
> Chas. Colerich
> Oakland, CA USA
>
>
> Peter Rogers wrote:
>> Dear Chas,
>> Many thanks for the information and it is interesting that you used to
>> sell Bertins in your shop.
>>
>> I checked out the CR archives and the website (blog) that you mentioned
>> in your email.
>>
>> As requested, I have posted the eBay photos on my blog:
>>
>> http://petersclassicwheels.blogspot.com/
>>
>> The listing claims that it is a refinished Bertin frame (painted some
>> time ago, I think) and that it is made from Reynolds 531.
>> I believe that the front forks are not 531, but I am not sure.
>> I have not received the frame yet.
>>
>> I am not sure if the dropouts are Campy, but they look similar.
>>
>> Please let me know if you think it may be Bertin, as claimed.
>>
>> All the best,
>> Peter Rogers
>>
>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> From: "verktyg" Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 1:53AM
>> To: "Peter Rogers"
>> Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin Frames
>>
>>> Sheldon Brown (RIP) described Bertins as "Better than average '70's
>>> bikes."
>>>
>>> Our shop imported Bertins from 1975 until the early 80s.
>>>
>>> There's a website with a fairly accurate history of Andre Bertin and his
>>> company Cycles Bertin also called Cycles Andre Bertin:
>>>
>>> http://bertinclassiccycles.wordpress.com/
>>>
>>> The webmaster runs it more as a blog than a forum.
>>>
>>> Some of the information on models and hierarchy is based on opinions and
>>> guesses from contributors rather than hard facts from those who were in
>>> the trade when these bikes were being produced and sold.
>>>
>>> A Bertin Reynolds 531 frame for \u20ac 35 sounds like a good deal.
>>>
>>> Like most of the French bike makers, a lot of the bikes from the 60s
>>> through mid 70s had only the 3 main tubes Reynolds 531 with Durifort
>>> forks and stays on their mid range bikes.
>>>
>>> Many eBay sellers aren't aware of that or ignore it in their listings.
>>>
>>> During those years the best models where all Reynolds 531 or Super Vitus
>>> 971 tubing with Campy dropouts.
>>>
>>> Post some pictures and I can probably help ID the frame for you.
>>>
>>> Chas. Colerich
>>> Oakland, CA USA
>>>
>>>
>>> Peter Rogers wrote:
>>>> Dear All,
>>>> Just purchased a Reynolds 531 Bertin frame on eBay France for 35 Euros.
>>>> I'll post some photos on my blog shortly.
>>>> Does anyone on the list know anything about the quality and pedigree
>>>> these frames?
>>>> Any help will be much appreciated.
>>>> Kind regards,
>>>> Peter Rogers
>>>> Barrie, Ontario, Canada