Re: [CR] Phil disk brake, Vitus 172

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme:2002)

In-Reply-To: <DD4CC34FA0C344B9864304842BF815ED@D8XCLL51>
References: <> <>
Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2010 21:10:16 -0500
From: "Harry Travis" <>
To: Ted Ernst <>
Cc: JB Froke <>,,
Subject: Re: [CR] Phil disk brake, Vitus 172

Ted: Will I find in your or selected other CR listers' or other engineers' remarks more on the wear of steel frames? Re:The "soft" , but not in "softening"
>From the Wikipedia Reynolds tube entry (put here just for newbies like me,)

653 - Was a mixed tubeset which combined tubings of different steels; made up of 753 stays with 653 main tubes and 531 forks [7]. Following feedback from Eddy Merckx that a pure 753 frame was too harsh for certain stages of the Tour de France, Reynolds produced a 653 tubeset which combined 753 stays with 531 main tubes and forks[citation needed]. The 531 used was a thinner gauge than usual, produced specifically for use in the 653 set[citation needed]. Eddy and other riders were very pleased with the result, which combined a light, ultra-stiff and efficient transmission with a more forgiving and comfortable ride[citation needed].

[7] Tony Oliver, "The Touring Bike"

I know you are only reporting supposedly well-informed gossip. But, it is from teen agers and guys in their twenties, few of whom could not have wanted new gear and envied those favored with such.

In the religious wars over frame materials I've just not seen the report you offer here, in passing. For that matter, and this is even on-topic, I asked on whether anyone would report having replaced AND DESTOYED a functional aluminum handlebar of many years use, just because it was old enough and used enough to be suspect of being near the end of its fatigue life, and nobody affirmed he had done so.

Harry Travis Pine Barrens of NJ USA

On Mon, Jul 5, 2010 at 12:35 PM, Ted Ernst <> wrote:
> I'm surprised at all the bad luck folks seem to /had with those older disco
> Phil Brakes.
> I sold quite a few, installed them and never had one fail in the "years".
> One person came in with a broken disc, had bought the unit elsewhere. We
> fixed it back up, realigned, and set the unit, no comeback??
> Maybe I was lucky and got the select oro units.
> As to the Vitus, when I was in Europe in the late '50's the talk was that
> Vitus was good tubing but seemed to "fatigue" or get "softer" after a season
> of hard use whereas Reynolds would go several seasons.
> The pros and best amateurs didn't use a frame more than 1 season, they got
> too trashed according to them.
> Columbus was stiffer would break unless heavier gauge used , hence the
> blended frames with 3 main tubes Reynolds, forks and stays Columbus,
> decaling varied according to builder and foto contractual obligations.
> Maybe the Vitus was used in too thin a gauge and therefore got"soft" and
> thus a bad rap, but that wasn't the impression I seemed to get.
> Ted Ernst
> Palos Verdes Estates
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "JB Froke" <>
> To: <>
> Cc: <>
> Sent: Monday, July 05, 2010 9:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [CR] Phil disk brake, was 73 Paramount tandem FS.
> Harvey, Thank you for your words of care and caution: As it will not be
>> ridden prior to sale, I wish to keep all intact, then share your admonition
>> with the buyer, which may be happening as we write.
>> J.B. Froke, Ph.D.
>> Pebble Beach, CA
>> On Jul 5, 2010, at 7:04, wrote:
>> I have only my customary note to add: Please, for safety's sake,
>>> disable the Phil disk brakes. They only fail when needed, but that's when
>>> they fail. By stripping the splines on the early ones, and by burning the
>>> later ones.
>>> Otherwise, sounds like the Right Stuff version of the Schwinn Paramount
>>> tandem, and quick tight-coupled, vintage machine.
>>> harvey sachs
>>> mcLean va (but now in Cleveland area, OH)
>>> Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2010 21:50:02 -0700
>>> From: JB Froke <>
>>> Subject: [CR] 1973 Paramount Tandem: Posting Exclusive to CR
>>> To:
>>> Message-ID: <>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>>> 1973 Paramount Tandem: For Sale and Posted Here (CR), Exclusively --
>>> First and exclusively to the CR List, I am offering for sale my 1973
>>> Schwinn Paramount Tandem: Model T22 (Double Men?s), serial no. GJ805909.
>>> This is a beautifully cared for bike that is in no less than fantastic
>>> condition. When I bought it, it was said to have fewer than 800 miles,
>>> believably; and, it has not been ridden since. The Flamboyant Red frame is
>>> 21?F/21?R (c-c) and shows minor stone chips, only (some are touched-up with
>>> matching nail polish). Decals range from perfect on most to minor chipping
>>> on the fewer.
>>> Cranksets, pedals, and seatposts are Campagnolo; Transmission is
>>> Schwinn/Huret Le Tour; Huret rear drop-outs; Hubs are Phil Wood, as are the
>>> Disk Brakes that supplement the original Mafac cantilevers; Barcons are
>>> Schwinn-approved Suntour; Both bars are Cinelli (stoker?s are new
>>> lightweight city-bars), and stoker?s stem is Pivo; Matching Continental?
>>> Super Sport? tires on (R) Super Champion and (F) ABT SunRims; Spokes are
>>> beautifully tied and soldered; Seats are (C) Turbo Bernard Hinault and (S)
>>> Avocet; Matching toe-straps are REG.
>>> Asking $1,800.00 + shipping; but, would be delighted if you pick it up at
>>> my house -- so much so that under that circumstance I?d let it go at $1,600
>>> OTD. Or, I can deliver to SoCal (Dana Point), where I stay monthly.
>>> Otherwise, I recall a recent CR discussion re shipping tandems by train --
>>> seems a reasonably sound idea.
>>> JB Froke
>>> Pebble Beach CA
>> _______________________________________________
> _______________________________________________

Harry Travis