For what it's worth I built a twin down and seat tube track frame using 3/4" T45 (0.9mm wall) and built the rest with Deda plain gauge. I was expecting it to behave in an interesting way - much like the Simoncini frame that I tested for Cycling Plus c2008 - but found it to be far stiffer than expected and indeed much like my Columbus Cromor frame. Check out my Vincent frame on the RoadCC website. Unfortunately, they don't actualy say much about it. I didn't get any orders as people are obsessed with brand names in the UK and indeed the black fibrous stuff.
On Wed, Jul 7, 2010 at 8:00 PM, <firstname.lastname@example.org>wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
> 1. FS: KYOKUTO PRO ACE PEDALS W/ AFA CLIPS & LAPIZE STRAPS
> (Peter Jourdain)
> 2. Re: Frame "stiffness" (Keith Anderson Cycles)
> 3. Frame stiffness, Now 3V stiffness (Tom Sanders)
> 4. Re: Frame stiffness, Now 3V stiffness (Ken Freeman)
> 5. Re: Frame stiffness NOW 3V tubes (Jon M. Crate)
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 09:55:58 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Peter Jourdain <email@example.com>
> Subject: [CR] FS: KYOKUTO PRO ACE PEDALS W/ AFA CLIPS & LAPIZE STRAPS
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> Message-ID: <email@example.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Nice pair of Kyokuto Pro Ace pedals, excellent copy of Campy record pedals.
> Really well built and they turn smoothly. AFA toeclips have a 50-55mm reach
> (medium) with some rust in places. Very good white Lapize toe straps.
> Photos here----
> $30 plus shipping. Paypal only, please, to firstname.lastname@example.org
> Peter Jourdain
> Whitewater, Wisconsin USA
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2010 09:59:33 -0700
> From: "Keith Anderson Cycles" <email@example.com>
> Subject: Re: [CR] Frame "stiffness"
> To: "paccoastcycles" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> Cc: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> Respectfully, I would like to put in my 2 cents. Steel rides like steel
> no matter whether it's 531, 753, nivacrom, or unobtanium. The (basic)
> differences are in the strength of the material. The stronger the
> material, the thinner they can make the walls, and thus the lighter they
> can make the tubes. If you took a bike with the same geometry, and tubes
> of different material, say 753 and Prestige, but with the same
> dimensions, and wall thickness, you wold not be able to tell the
> difference. I promise! It is ALL in the geometry and dimensions of the
> steel that make the ride, not the perceived qualities of the material.
> Also, as we all know, the paint job is what really most effects the ride
> quality ;)
> Keith Anderson
> Keith Anderson Cycles
> 222 N. Marble Dr.
> Grants Pass, OR 97526
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [CR] Frame "stiffness"
> From: "paccoastcycles" <email@example.com>
> Date: Wed, July 07, 2010 9:31 am
> To: "Anthony Taylor" <firstname.lastname@example.org>,
> I believe that the vast majority of "comfort" on a bicycle frame comes
> the rider's fit to the bicycle. Also, my view has an unexplainable (by
> at least) relationship to the wheelbase of the bike. If I am pressed to
> it into words, I'd say that it has to do with where the rider's mass is
> relation to the wheelbase.
> Of course there are differences among frame material characteristics.
> Materials that have been used successfully for frames are subject to
> made within the narrow parameters that will make a workable bike. I'm
> trying to say that the differences are smaller than the flex in the
> and wheels. This doesn't serve the marketplace very well. It needs to
> us believe that some frame materials have a quality that is better than
> others. Even if they do, the rider's position on the bike is where
> comes from. I don't expect this idea to sit well with some people, so it
> be chalked up with my idea that Marketing Driven Folklore makes us
> some obvious truths.
> I don't mean nay disrespect to anyone who doesn't agree with this and I
> don't say it to make anyone wrong. It is just my idea and a little info
> support it.
> Chuck Hoefer
> Pacific Coast Cycles
> Oceanside, Calif.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Anthony Taylor" <email@example.com>
> To: <Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 2010 8:04 AM
> Subject: [CR] Frame "stiffness"
> >I have been following the thread with interest. I have a '93 Reynolds 753
> > Paramount which I have had from new. I really feel a bit beaten up on the
> > last
> > half of a century. I'm not sure if it is the geometry or the tube set,
> > I
> > don't find it to be a plush ride, as others seem to. I have been
> > contemplating
> > replacing it with an earlier SLX version.
> > I would be interested in any comments or suggestions.
> > Tony Taylor
> > Manchester NH