Re: [CR] Bertin ID help Needed + ebay alert

(Example: Events:Cirque du Cyclisme)

Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2011 13:48:46 -0800
From: "verktyg" <verktyg@aol.com>
To: Classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
References: <AANLkTiktmjQQO4WVsuVUR-6ibOLVSsA+=Sz2rxxhYApE@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To:
Subject: Re: [CR] Bertin ID help Needed + ebay alert


Amir,

The C37 was Bertin's top frame from the 1960s until the mid 1980s. I've seen Bertin C37 bikes equipped with with everything from steel cranks and Huret Allvit derailleurs (in the 1960s) to all Campy or all DuraAce plus all French pro and all Spidel. So C37 was more of a frame designation than a model designation.

C37 frames were made with all Reynolds 531 tubing. They also made a C37bis frame with Super Vitus 971. All of the C37 frames were built with the classic French road racing geometry that was popular in France from the late 60s to early 70s.

Bertin also produced some full racing models: C79 SSC made with Reynolds 531SL and C80 SSC with Columbus SL tubing; they had fast back seat stays.

I don't recall ever seeing a Bertin with wrap over seat stay caps like the one that you show. All the C37s that I know of used an oval brazed-on seat stay cap.

http://tinyurl.com/49relys http://tinyurl.com/49havhg

Also, I don't recall Bertin using those style lugs either. Same thing with the down tube Bertin decals, they didn't show up until later.

It's easy to date the bike because Bertin the the French importer/distributor for Shimano and they would have used the latest components that were available when the bike was built.

Bertin being a small company was very flexible. They put out catalogs ever year but they were merely guidelines as I suspect that most of their large orders were built to the buyers specifications.

They also took a lot of "artistic license" as far as components and decals were concerned. It appears that they used whatever they had on the shelf more so than most other French builders! For example when we were importing Bertins it was not uncommon to get one model of bikes with decals from the early 70s and another with more recent decals.

They made touring and racing model frames. We were able to specify things like the sizes, tubing, dropouts and components (usually) but we took what the sent us as far as colors and decals were concerned.

So to answer your question about the model, it was probably a one-off show bike.

BTW, the fellow who runs the Bertin Classic Cycles website has done a excellent job of putting together the history of Cycles Andre Bertin.

A criticism is the way he talks about the various models as if the information were carved in stone. He's relied on data about the bikes from owners and other anecdotal information and as I said above:

Caractéristiques sujet au changement sans avis! ;-)

There were at least 7 different companies that imported Bertins into the US between the 1960s and 1980s. They all brought in different bikes so there were very few "standard models"!

The Bertins that we imported had all French components. Bertin couldn't understand why we didn't want Shimano equipped bikes???

Chas. "Is it wrong or just French" Colerich Oakland, CA USA

Amir Avitzur wrote:
> A few years ago a friend bought the personal "show" bike of Israel's former
> Bertin/Zeus/Milremo importer, Eli Samoucha.
>
> It was a beautiful silver Bertin, Reynolds 531, with all First Generation
> Dura-Ace parts.
>
> He has since parted out the Dura-Ace group and has asked me to sell the
> frame (will post on ebay shortly, seller amiriatelmo)
>
> Seat tube: 56.5 C-to-C
>
> Top tube: 56.5 C-to-C
>
> frame comes with D-A square taper bottom bracket and headset
>
> Can anyone identify the model name/number of this frame?
>
> Photos at http://www.flickr.com/photos/cycles_bertin/
>
> Any Bertin Catalogs on the web?
>
> Amir Avitzur
> Ramat-Gan, Israel.