Richard,
I agree with your sentiments.
On the other hand, a couple of years back, when I was about to buy a Thanet from Britain from a guy who sells fakes a lot, I was rather happy when an acquaintance put me in touch with knowledgeable people on the matter, including another disenchanted buyer. I was able to back out of the deal with little money lost.
Usually, those who buy the bikes don't know much about them yet. Once they have the bikes, they find out more. Sure, you could wait 10 years and assemble information before looking for a bike. But most of us want that bike now! I actually have bought some bikes because I wanted to know how they ride, and nobody was ready to lend me theirs (most notably my Cambio Corsa-equipped Learco Guerra - see the story in On The Wheel a few years back).
That said, it would be nice if people would not assume sellers are intentionally misleading. But what do you do if you point out an error to a seller and they don't do anything about it. Or for that matter, historical errors to somebody who puts up a website? I found that in many of those cases, CR members were rather generous giving the benefit of a doubt.
Finally, those who don't know about the CR list don't need to be all that worried about what is said here... and you can ignore anybody's opinions and bid on an original Fausto Coppi bike with SR components... (In fact, I feel that most people were trying to figure out whether the bike truly was old and just had a few wrong components. That would do the seller a service by reassuring bidders that the bike was original and could be put right.)
Have a good race!
Jan Heine, Seattle
>here is my beef...then i REALLY am off to race:
>dale often summons up the word 'civility' when citing
>list discussion guidelines. many of these ebay trashings
>border on name calling and the like and in my opinion
>represent the worst in better judgement. i'd rather decide
>for myself than read 2 dozen differing opinons about why
>some guy's desription isn't what the cr-ers think is appropriate
>for the item listed.
>e-RICHIE
>...'cross bekons.
>
>On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 12:12:59 -0700 Jan Heine <heine@mindspring.com>
>writes:
>> I strongly believe that one has the right to be critical of other
>> people's efforts. I am no framebuilder, but I still can criticise
>> some bikes that are poorly done.
>>
>> I don't think Dale would turn anybody away who wants to join the CR
>>
>> list, so the sellers could join and defend their auctions, if they
>> like.
>>
>> Even if the sellers are not present, we can talk about them. Just
>> like I can criticise the government's war plans among friends
>> without
>> asking the government to attend.
>>
>> Finally, I don't like the "buyer beware" policy. When you bid on an
>>
>> e-bay item, you have a description and a few photos. If you assume
>> that the photos show the best side and omit the problems, and
>> likewise for the description, you cannot buy anything. The same for
>>
>> other stuff listed on the net - often without a photo at all. So
>> "buyer beware" means that you only buy locally what you can inspect
>>
>> in person.
>>
>> So, e-bay is based on trust. Bad listings, intentional or not,
>> destroy the whole process. Sure, you could travel to see the bike in
>>
>> question, but the cost is such that it is not worth while in most
>> cases. (Spend $ 800 to find out that a $ 650 bike isn't what you
>> thought it was? You might as well buy it and throw it in the garbage
>>
>> if it doesn't turn out, and still save $ 150.)
>>
>> One of the reasons e-bay is so successful here, and not in my
>> original home country of Germany is that people here are more honest
>>
>> with their descriptions, while Germans very much feel "Buyer
>> beware."
>> "You didn't ask whether this particular flaw was present, so I
>> didn't
>> have to tell you" seems to be the prevailing thought among many
>> Germans.
>>
>> Just my thoughts, of course.
>>
> > Jan Heine, Seattle
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