Re: [CR]Outfitting the '73 Hetchins Spyder: drive train Dilemnas.

Example: Framebuilders:Bernard Carré

Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 21:58:14 -0500
To: HM & SS Sachs <>
From: Mark Stonich <>
Subject: Re: [CR]Outfitting the '73 Hetchins Spyder: drive train Dilemnas.
In-Reply-To: <>
cc: Classic Rendezvous <>

At 10/22/2004 09:41 PM -0400, HM & SS Sachs wrote:
>1) Shifters. Has braze-on Campy bosses, so the DT Shimanos & SunTours I
>have won't fit. Darn (I have some NOS D/A dt shifters, clamp-on, just
>sitting there and they won't go on). So, will Simplex Retros fit (not
>that I have a pair)? How far back do Suntour Barcons go? I actually have
>a pair of the Shimano barcons, too, but don't know how far back they go,

Does this help?
>At 8/21/2004 10:25 PM -0400, Joe Bender-Zanoni wrote:
>I don't know about the bar-cons for sure but the ratchet shifter
>incorporated in them is US Patent 3,693,469.
>You can view that at
>If you need to, load the alternatiff viewer. It is an easy process.
>This patent shows a Japanese priority date of 1970. That would be the date
>of filing in Japan.
>I would guess any ratchet shifters didn't show up in the US until 1972
>(early Fuji Finest.) I don't remember any bar-cons until perhaps 1973 or 4. [snip]
>2) Crane/DuraAce are age-appropriate, but Berto/Dancing Chain says they
>don't work as well as Suntour. Votes?

Berto was a big fan of Suntour BarCons, and he was into huge freewheels. Suntour's slant parallelogram gave them a real advantage on really big freewheels. But Cranes were OK up to about 30t and were more durable.

In those days SunTours shifters and rear derailleurs were designed to work with more cable travel, and less cable tension than their competition. (A superior idea IMHO) If you hooked a Crane up to ST BarCons, a small amount of lever travel translated into overly large movements at the rear. And the increased cable tension of the Crane meant the Barcon friction had to be adjusted too tightly, making it's movements jerky instead of smooth. Combine the 2 directly and shifting was crap. However, if you put a Simplex Demultiplicator Relias between them, all was sweetness and light.

I also made a few bucks back then, selling a kit that moved the cable stop and anchor outward on a Huret DuoPar, making them compatible with the BarCons.
>1) Shimano Crane // D-A // campy DT or Shimano barcon or Suntour barcon =>
>looks like it was thought out, might work.

See above.
>2) Suntour GT // Campy record // campy DT => will work well.

Rear shifting will be slow, as you will a have to move the small barrel Campy shifter quite a ways to pull enough cable for the Suntour rear.

Mark Stonich;
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