eRichie posted the following response to Bruce Gordon on the Framebuilder's List. I am posting it here with his permission: ------------------------------------------------- snipped: (<bgcycles@svn.net> wrote) 1) "But really Im concerned about the direction the small framebuilding community is going." and 2) "...and more important awards do not pay the bills.
my reply - 1) i'm not. i think "the direction the small framebuilding community is going" is a good one. these cats are upbeat, eager, enthusiastic, and positive. don't take your rainy day and drag them into it. their sun is high and it give s off alot of light and heat. 2) awards are stooped imho. regardless, i saw you propped your award from japan once or four times in a forum or two. where's the love there?
bruce - enough with the negative waves already. at one time, you may have seen a market in racks and also tigged welded price point frames as a way to bolster your income. find some 2006 version of that entre- penurial verve to help you out now. if you aren't selling frames or maki ng the living that you want, do you really think it'll resolve itself by co ndescending to the state of the marketplace on internet forums? (apologies for dangl ing a participle yo). as i wrote 3 or 4 days ago, the sky is not falling, and the universe is not expanding, alvy singer - at least it's not expanding at such a rate that all of us need to eschew life and living at this very moment. e-RICHIE©® paste this around if you please - i'm replying to only one of the 4-5 lists that this original post was spammed to.
---------------------------------------------------- Ray Dobbins Miami Florida
Bruce Gordon <bgcycles@svn.net> wrote: I am writing this response to all those have been discussing topics I put in my post after the NAHBS. Again I apologize for multiple posting, but there have been so many posts and private emails from people on the CR, iBbob,Touring,and Frambuilders lists that I thought I would send it to them all. Im also sorry that I have not been able to reply to all the private emails that offered advice, and support.
I feel that there is one major subject that has been neglected in all the conversations. I know that I have been called a whiner, a complainer, and tiring. Im OK with that. But really Im concerned about the direction the small framebuilding community is going.
I read all about the concerns with the judging of the show I really had no problem with the awards it was a vote of the people, and more important awards do not pay the bills.
As I mentioned before, I handed out an anonymous questionnaire to the small builders at the show. I received 17 back from the builders, and the results were quite alarming.
Here are some of the results.
Not one builder was satisfied with the money they made.
All but 2 builders did not know what their overhead was, and the 2 who answered did not really know what overhead was. Being the son of an accountant I do know my overhead.
Not one builder could retire on their current income if necessary - this is particularly alarming because I will turn 58 in 3 months.
Less than ½ said they had small savings or small 401k plans
The total years building of the 17 responses was 224 years (wow) or 13.18 average
I spoke to many builders at the show (not everyone) and only one said that they made $35,000 building fulltime. Most were in the under $20,000 range which is where I fall. What was most alarming was that the one builder who is most often held up as successful, was also in the under $20,000 club.
Many have said that small framebuilders are not affected by what I call Marketers (people who design frames and have them built overseas, mostly Japan and Taiwan). My business which is 95% TIGed touring frames and equipment, has definitely been hurt by them.
It used to be that lugged frames could easily command $1500 to $2000. Now with Japanese and Taiwan frames going for $800 to $1400 the expected price for a lugged frame has been driven down to that level in the mind for the consumer.
I have spoken to several potential customers who read about my
misfortune
(snipped). They were quite sympathetic, but they hoped that I would NOT
raise my prices. While I welcome advice I would really like to hear
from
builders who make more than the magical $35,000 a year call me
greedy. A
friend with over 27 years building says he doesnt need to be rich,
but he
would like to make a Living Wage (see
http://www.epinet.org/
And what never ceases to amaze me is that every day I read about more new builders joining the community I hope the new crew builds an Old Framebuilders Home Im almost ready.
In closing I think there is something fundamentally wrong with a community where virtually no one building frames makes even a Living Wage
Regards,
Bruce Gordon
Bruce Gordon Cycles
Bruce Gordon
Bruce Gordon Cycles