What you pointed out - is spot on history and point wise. But what you are asking Dale to do while issuing a final warning to me - is to retroactively issue a "boot" to at least two senior members who within the last 2 years resorted to outright expletive attacks on me in the public - which I have never
done.
Dales standards in the rules, correctly so IMHO, are much higher for that than lower level insinuations, condecension, negative tone, etc.
Frankly, I would rather move forward. I suspect Dale prefers the same.
Robert Shackelford San Jose, CA USA
Quoting Raymond Dobbins <raydobbins2003@yahoo.com>:
>
> Dale,
> I am not against the idea of enforcement assistants (Dale's Deputies?), but I
> don't think having them would avoid the problem we are faced with now, in the
> future.
> In my opinion, the problem is not a lack of leadership on your part. Â You
> have no problem deciding what is off-topic, and it seldom takes you more than
> a couple of hours to answer a direct question. Â I suppose a designated
> deputy would be a good idea for those times when you are unavailable for
> extended periods, but generally the list runs perfectly well with just you
> making the decisions, and I think most of us prefer it that way.Â
> Nor is the problem that some people ask questions that could be answered by
> searching the CR archives. Â As you have said before, there is no obligation
> to search the archives or any other source before asking a question. Â As
> much as it may bother some people, it's OK to ask newbie-type questions.
> The problem as I see it is that Robert publicly criticizes certain posts as
> off-topic,
> and publicly chastises members for failing to search the net (not just the
> CR archives) before posting a question. Â Robert knows that he is supposed to
> direct these complaints to you privately, but as he has admitted, sometimes
> he can't help himself.
> I think the solution to the immediate problem is to issue Robert a final
> warning to cease and desist from making these public complaints or face
> immediate suspension. Â If I understand correctly, he has been admonished
> before, so a final warning would be appropriate.
> Thanks for asking for our input.
> Ray DobbinsMiami Florida USA
>
> --- On Mon, 6/21/10, oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com> wrote:
>
> From: oroboyz@aol.com <oroboyz@aol.com>
> Subject: [CR] Was: Robert's spoke
> brouhaha. now: Question for Dale...
> To: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net, classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Date: Monday, June 21, 2010, 9:40 PM
>
> << Dale, ...(snip)... I joined specifically for discussions related directly
> to vintage, classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules. ...(snip)...
> Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the CR
> rules? Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the filtering
>
> quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.
>
> My I suggest
> that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the likes
> of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example? Jerome knows one helluva
> lot...Bob
> can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around awhile...the
>
> vast majority of us here know who they are.
>
> Please address those
> questions in the plea of sorts above. >>
>
>
> Hmmm.
> Well the first point to be made is that the list is not moderated, i.e., I do
> not read & clear messages prior to their
> being sent to all the members. I get to read them just like everyone else.
> So I am reduced to reading them as I can... and calling people to task when
> and if I see that they have onerously broken the rules. I honestly do not
> think there are as many annoying violations of the rules as you seem to
> suffer through Robert! Granted, some things irritate me more than others
> (rudeness, vulgarity, using the list as a testing ground for pending eBay
> offerings for instance) But I also remember when I was a newbie in computers
> so maybe I tend to be more understanding with unintentional goofs.Â
> Of course, I also run a very busy bike shop and organize many cycling events
> so that I miss some mail. In the end, I do what I can and plod along.
> But taking your
> question to heart, I do not at all reject the idea of Bob or Jerry helping
> in that way. Both I consider excellent fellow and good friends. What say
> you, fellows?Â
>
>
> Dale
>
>
> Dale Brown
> cycles de ORO, Inc.
> 1410 Mill Street #100
> Greensboro, North Carolina 27408 USA
> 336-274-5959
> http://www.cyclesdeoro.com
> http://www.classicrendezvous.com
> http://www.carolinacup.com
> âLife is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep
> movingâ A.Einstein
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mrrabbit@mrrabbit.net
> To: classicrendezvous@bikelist.org
> Sent: Mon, Jun 21, 2010 7:31 pm
> Subject: Re: [CR] spoke question & snark
>
>
> Okay...
>
> Everyone has had their chance to wax poetic,
> be the knight on the shining horse
>
> for the person getting "picked on", rally the wagons, etc., etc., etc.
>
> For the past two years, I have made two points over and over - which of
> course
> has gotten people all riled up each time:
>
> 1. This is a site for the discussion of vintage, classic and KOF bikes,
> parts,
>
> and their history as defined by Dale in the CR rules.
>
> 2. This is a site for the discussion of restoration, mechanical repair,
> etc.,
> of vintage, classic and KOF bikes and parts as defined by Dale in the CR
> rules.
>
> Now of course, each time everyone has gotten riled up - including some
> tossing
> outright profanity at me in public - Dale hops in and both publicly and
> privately reminds everyone including yours truly that it's his website and he
>
> enforces the rules.
>
> Which is fine by me...for awhile...as I sit quietly and watch over a period
> of
> 2-3 months a 1000 plus emails land
> in my inbox of which easily 1/3 are OFF-
> TOPIC...mostly "attaboys" and general mechanics questions and discussions
> instead of vintage/classic/KOF specific mechanics questions and discussions.
>
> Then of course having gotten tired of following the CR rules while watching
> others blatantly violate them - I run into a bad day and stick my ugly head
> up
> on the radar again - just like this morning.
>
> As a case in point, it got so bad at one point awhile back that one evening,
> CR
>
> became the new Craigslist Helpdesk. When I pointed that out, I got the
> usual
> heat including ad-homs. Surprisingly, even Dale joined in on the attack to
>
> which I asked paraphrasing:Â "So are you okay Dale with CR becoming a
> helpdesk
> for Craigslist when Craigslist already has one?
>
> I never did get an answer...
>
> So, regarding this morning, let's get down to it:
>
> 1. Can I resuse spokes?Â
> OFF-TOPIC
>
> It's a general mechanics question which has been answered a 100+ times over
> at
> bikeforums.net, forums.cycling.com and USENET courtesy of none other than
> Jobst
>
> Brandt and company - all archived by Google, Bing and Yahoo search engines.
>
> 2. Source for Robergel and Union-Berg? ON-TOPIC
>
> I was happy to see that part because it was another reminder that once again
> I
> really do need to ask about the Berg part - I'm not familiar with it -
> assuming
>
> it's the same Union that I am familiar with.
>
>
> 3. Source for DT Swiss 2.0/1.8? GOES BOTH WAYS
>
> Is DT KOF as a spoke? Some would say yes...some would say no...both sides
> are
> right in my honest opinion. Why did I go off on the poster? Simply
> because it
>
> told me flat out that the poster couldn't be bothered to do a little research
>
> with a search engine with the 8 fingers and 2 thumbs already splayed
> out across
>
> the keyboard. It took me less than 30 seconds to get a listing - one of
> which
> was Harris Cyclery offering custom lengths from blanks.
>
> Now before you guys start firing off those rockets again - understand that we
>
> have had this argument before - and a couple others on this list have
> expressed
>
> the same annoyance that I have with those we can't be bothered to do a little
>
> work up front with the tools they already have and know how to use
> beforehand.
>
> Am I done yet with that point? Actually not...because not only do people
> not
> make use of those listed search engines - but they also ignore BIKELIST.ORG's
>
> own search engine which is linked and noted 3 times over at a minimum when
> you
> follow the directory to join, follow the directory to browse the listings,
> and
> when you follow the directory to review the CR rules as I periodically do.
>
> Dale refuses to say it, but I will.Â
> Folks that do that in my honest opinion,
> whether unintentionally or intentionally, are displaying a lack of respect
> for
> those who maintain the site and list. BIKELIST.ORG's seach engine works
> fine -
>
> and even then when a few of us who do use it don't find something - we note
> it
> and apologize in ADVANCE before posting just in case.
>
> Now I am going to wrap things up...with a plea of sorts addressed to Dale
> more
> than anyone else:
>
> Dale, I joined CR not to experience bikeforums.net, forums.bicycling.com or
> USENET. I joined specifically for discussions related directly to vintage,
>
> classic and KOF items as stated in your CR rules. Also I did not join to
> witness an IT helpdesk for Craigslist. Even some of the eBay help stuff is
>
> crossing the line. eBay also has help forums and a chat forum.
>
> It has gotten to the point again where after trying very hard to read
> people's
>
> posts - I find myself realizing, here we go again...and doing a pipe/mv of
> the
> queues to /dev/null and restarting my qmail on my server.
>
> Are you going to step in more and be more proactive about inforcing the CR
> rules? Seriously Dale, I WANT TO READ PEOPLE's POSTINGS, but the filtering
>
> quantity-wise gets flat out tiring.
>
> My I suggest that you allow a couple others to do the enforcement - the likes
>
> of Jerome Moos and Bob Freitas for example? Jerome knows one helluva
> lot...Bob
>
> can be short and direct when it's needed...they have been around awhile...the
>
> vast majority of us here know who they are.
>
> Please address those questions in the plea of sorts above.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Robert Shackelford
> San Jose, CA USA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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> _______________________________________________
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
>
>
> --
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